Author Topic: Low velocity lead bullet loads for .264 WM?  (Read 881 times)

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Offline thales

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Low velocity lead bullet loads for .264 WM?
« on: October 08, 2012, 10:41:31 AM »
I have a .264 Winchester Magnum with a bum barrel. It has a constriction of about .0015" just in front of the chamber which really ruins accuracy. I think fire-lapping is in for this rifle. Trouble is, I don't have any data for low velocity loads with lead bullets. I have ordered some lapping bullets from Beartooth, but I don't have the bullets yet, so I don't know their weight. I would guess that they will be somewhere around 135gr.


I want to keep the velocity down to 1000fps or less. That means that light loads of pistol powder are probably best, but I don't have data on where to start.


Does anyone have a source or a recommendation?

Offline Veral

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Re: Low velocity lead bullet loads for .264 WM?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2012, 01:22:25 PM »
Hope you aren't using Beartooh lap compound and information too.  The lap bullets will be fine though.  If you had my lap kit you will be properly informed on what powder and how to determine the right load.               The right load is NOT EVEN CLOSE to 1000 fps.  And you won't find a loading manual with proper advise.

  In a nutshell.  If you are using Marshall Stantons compound, ask him and live with the results.   If you get the LBT lap kit with it's detailed instructions, you get it's proven track record of almost 20 years.   A record which Marhal wishes was his and is trying to steal. 

  I'll bend over backward to help. anyone using LBT products.
Veral Smith deceased 1/19/25

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Low velocity lead bullet loads for .264 WM?
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2012, 01:48:05 PM »
i have lapped  over 40 guns with verals  kit


followed  the instructions and all is well


have veral  cut you a mold for that gun
for  lapping  now  and cheap shooting  later
[or just get a cheap lee mold for lapping only]
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AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

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Offline thales

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Re: Low velocity lead bullet loads for .264 WM?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2012, 01:54:09 PM »
Veral;


Actually, I do have your lapping kit. I bought the bullets from Beartooth as a matter of convenience since I already have too much trouble finding time to go to the range and reload ammo, let alone get into bullet casting. I understand that the goal with lapping loads is to keep the velocity low while simultaneously ensuring that the bullet will exit the bore every time. In your instructions for centerfire lapping, you did not mention any specific numbers for optimal velocity. Since you favor subsonic loads for .22 rimfire lapping, I assumed that 1000fps would be a reasonable lapping velocity for a centerfire. You don't seem to agree, but again, you did not mention an optimal velocity range. Also, 4gr Bullseye in an overbore case with a fairly heavy bullet does not sound all that heavy to me. But I have never done this before and, as you mentioned, I can't find such loads in any loading manual, which is why I asked. I would much rather ask a naive question than drive a stuck bullet out of an expensive barrel. So, what do you think is the optimum velocity, and do you think that 4gr bullseye is a good starting load for this cartridge?


45-70,


Like I say, I have trouble finding the time to get into bullet casting. The .264WM is a very fine long range hunting cartridge, but it suffers from one very big fault; early throat erosion. Many people find that their accuracy goes south before 1000 rounds. Indeed, it can be difficult to sort out the various technical issues with the rifle, as I am doing, and work up a reasonably accurate load before the throat is gone. So once I get there, I won't be shooting this rifle all that much. Sighting in and hunting, but not much practice or plinking.


Thanks, and best regards.

Offline Veral

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Re: Low velocity lead bullet loads for .264 WM?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 04:06:58 PM »
  I'm sorry that I was too sharp, and will give you a better idea where to start. --  My problem is that I have a sore, and it can gt bumped all too easy, mentally of coarse.  Just like a physical sore.  Cut my left index fincer to the bone about a month ago and it is raw as all get out yet.  Guess where the dogs teeth land most often if I play with him, and guess which finger gets skidded accross or whacked most when I'm working! 

  Try 3 grains.    If you run them too fast you'll get leading, which will stop the lapping until you get it scrubbed out, so it is easier to knock a stuck bullet out than to mine out some lead, or shoot several lap bullets before you realize the bore is leaded and progress has stopped. 

  I like to be able to see the bullets in flight, which is probably around 200 to 300 fps.  If they are going faster than that they are hard to see, so the above velocity is a guess, based on shooting low velocity airguns.

  If you stick a bullet, use a cold rolled steel rod that will slip down the barrel freely, which would be a 1/4 inch.  Most hardwares sell it in three foot lengths.   Shorten it to the length of the barrel so you don't have a long chunck whipping around to pound on.  Drop it into the barrel, and tap it VERY LIGHTLY with a BIG hammer, or swing the gun straight on as you can hold it, so the rod hts a concrete or other solid wall.  VERY GENTLY is the key.  The slug will slip out easily if the bump isn't sharp enough to upset or obturate the lead out tight against the barrel.  If you put a piece of tape on the rod at the muzzle, with rod setting on the bullet, you can see how much it moves and when it moves.    Take your time and bump lightly, as long as it's moving a little.  It will lap some as it is backed out.  Easy, won't hurt the gun at all.

  About the throat wear.  It will last longest if you use a ball powder because they burn cooler, and if you back off from maximum velocity a hundred fps or so, the lower pressure and flame speed as the burning powder rips from case into the throat is mulified considerable.  These two things could easily double throat life. 

  When the throat gets worn enough that those lightening fast middle and light weight bullets won't shoot accurate any more, go to the heaviest, longest bearing bullets you can find and it will shoot accurately again.  To make accuracy peak with these, crimp them with the Lee Factory crimp die.  Experiment with amount of crimp until a bullet fits the crimp area tightly on a fired case.  This will pilot the bullet base straight while the rifling is getting hold of the front part of the bearing.  You might raise the useful  life of the gun  again by a thousand rounds with this trick.

  For the record, you'll get just as much throat wear with cast bullets as with jacketed, if both are  shot at equal velocities.   Burning powder does the dirty work.
Veral Smith deceased 1/19/25

Offline thales

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Re: Low velocity lead bullet loads for .264 WM?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2012, 04:53:30 AM »
Thanks Veral.

Offline thales

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Re: Low velocity lead bullet loads for .264 WM?
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2012, 03:56:59 PM »
Hi Veral, and thanks again for your thoughtful and helpful reply. Now I have another question whose answer is not quite clear in my reading of your lapping instructions.


Should the lapping bullets have their lube grooves filled with any particular kind of lube, or should they be empty? If lubed, should the lapping compound be applied before or after applying lube?


Thanks again, and best regards.

Offline Veral

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Re: Low velocity lead bullet loads for .264 WM?
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2012, 03:53:54 PM »
  I answered this question a few minutes ago on another post, with more detail, so you might look for that.   The simple  answer  is.  My compound is made to be used without bullet lube, but most won't hurt.  Just be sure it isn't LBT lube or lapping doesn't happen because our lube prevents abrasion.
Veral Smith deceased 1/19/25