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Author Topic: Why so much difference?  (Read 2268 times)

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Offline Sourdough

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Why so much difference?
« on: April 02, 2013, 07:04:00 AM »
I have two Mini-14s.  One is blue and I bought it back in 1985 when they had first came out.  I really liked it and carried it a lot.  It got stolen one day in 1996.  The wife bought me anew one in stainless with a synthetic stock.  Beautiful stock, and functions well.  Then ATF found my old one and returned it to me in 2008. 

Now for the difference.  The old one will hold a good group, the new one won't.  I can shoot a 3/4 inch group with the old one at 100 yards, at 200 yards the group opens up to 2 inches.  At 300 yards it's 4 inches, and at 400 yards it's 5 1/2 inches.  The newer one will shoot a three inch group at 100 yards period.  At 200 yards they are all over the target, and at 300 Yards half don't even hit the paper. 

What is so different about these guns?  I've never really tried to shoot for a group with the newer gun, until yesterday.  I sort of neglected them, I've been busy with other projects, and guns.  But I have started calling Coyotes, and am having multiples come in a lot.  Darned single shots are just not up to the need.  A second shot is often needed fast, and the Mini-14s are the only light semi-autos I own.  So I decided to break them out and start using them.  I was shocked at the differences in the two guns.  Can anything be done with the newer one to make it more accurate.
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Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2013, 08:52:52 AM »
I had read and heard about a lot of accuracy problems with the old 14s that supposably the newer ones have corrected. Maybe got a lemon?
GuzziJohn
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2013, 10:21:10 AM »
to many things to list that would effect accuracy. Ill say this though. If you truely have a mini that shoots 3/4 inch groups at a 100 yards you might just win a contest for the most accurate mini ever made! Most are more like your second one.
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2013, 11:23:50 AM »
One thing I have heard people do that is simple is tighten the gas block attached to the barrel.  Some people have also had their barrels shortened about an inch or so and it improved accuracy.  New ones made the last 3-4 years have thicker barrels and slightly shorter which is why the newer ones are more accurate. 
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Offline briarpatch

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2013, 11:34:22 AM »
MAN!!!! I'am like lloyd. If you've got a mini that will shoot 3/4" the Smithsonian would be interested. That would be the rarest gun in the world.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2013, 07:10:30 PM »
Ruger announced the Ranch Rifle in 1983 while I was in the Middle East.  I decided I wanted one of those.  When I returned to the States I was sitting in Virginia and went to a gun shop to buy one.  They would not sell it to me since I did not have a Virginia drivers License.  My brother in law bought the gun for me.  It was one of the first ones Ruger made.  I was talking to a person at the range today who collects Rugers.  He told me when Ruger first started making the Ranch Rifle, they made a better barrel.  Then the later ones went down hill.  I know the one from the late 90s sure don't shoot worth a darn.
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A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2013, 02:17:16 AM »
Have you tried tightening the gas block to see if that makes a difference?  I have seen the new ones made the last 3-4 years and they do have a thicker barrel and a little shorter barrel.  I like the all stainless ones with synthetic stock for all weather use.  There are also 3rd party barrel makers with thicker barrels you can order.  About 10 years ago they would change one out for about $200.  Probably more now and you would have to mail your gun off or have a gunsmith do it for you.  Have you ever used an AR-15 for your varmit carry rifle? 
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2013, 04:45:58 AM »
I have been looking at a Bushmaster.
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What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2013, 04:59:06 AM »
not telling anyone what to do , but after several mini 14's and mini 30's I got a M!-A Socom and it is light years better than the Rugers.
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Offline gstewart44

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2013, 07:30:24 AM »
Sourdough,
I got my SS Mini in the late '80s and like many have reported the best accuracy I could get with most factory ammo was about 3 - 3.5" at 100yds.    I found on another site about the inherent inaccuracies of the Mini's barrel......it is rather thin for the amount of motion going on with the recoiling mechanism.    The factory 18.5" barrel "whips" a lot during recoil.    Solutions offered were to stiffen the barrel by either 1) shortening the barrel to about 16.25 " or to add a reinforcing "barrel strut" .      I opted for the latter.   Immediately my target groups shrunk in half,  consistently giving me 1.25 - 1.5" with factory fodder.   I have done even better with some of my handloads.   Below is a pic of the barrel strut in place. 
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2013, 08:12:08 AM »
if you want to mess with it rather
than swap it, send it to odessa and
they'll rebarrel and tune it to where
you won't believe it was ever the same
gun.
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2013, 08:14:04 AM »
i'd considered sending them mine,
but it was an older one, not a ranch
and no scope mounting feature.
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Offline JPShelton

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2013, 02:35:52 PM »
Those struts like gstewart44 has on his do work and they're a far more cost effective solution than sending a gun off for rebarreling.
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2013, 02:50:48 PM »
Quote from: Lloyd Smale on April 02, 2013, 10:21:10 AM
to many things to list that would effect accuracy. Ill say this though. If you truely have a mini that shoots 3/4 inch groups at a 100 yards you might just win a contest for the most accurate mini ever made! Most are more like your second one.
I'll say Lloyd my old one(pre ranch rifle will barely shoot MOC,  minute of Coyote)
 
Quote from: Ranger99 on April 12, 2013, 08:14:04 AM
i'd considered sending them mine,
but it was an older one, not a ranch
and no scope mounting feature.
  Just where in Odessa?  That sounds like my rifle.
 
Quote
At 200 yards they are all over the target, and at 300 Yards half don't even hit the paper.


Sourdough you shooting those groups with open sights or scoped?
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2013, 04:40:00 PM »
accuracy rifle systems
the go-to place for mini's
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2013, 04:44:41 PM »
Thanks Ranger!
 
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2013, 05:00:10 PM »
when i was checking on that
way back when , they offered
turnkey rifles on a limited basis.
they may not anymore since all
the manure that has been brought
forth in the country.
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2013, 05:05:52 PM »
I will check into it. I have mostly used my rifle for open sight inside 150 yard coyote shots. It works well for that stuff. It would be nice to have it accurized but with no scope option it shoots as good as I can  ::)
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2013, 10:11:04 AM »
I use scopes on both guns.
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Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline hillbill

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2013, 11:01:58 AM »
i did a lot of research back when i did have a stainless mini. the barrel struts really seem to be well liked and also a pretty inexpensive mod.some guys even make their own.the gas block needs to be torqued evenly with a inch pound torque wrench.i forget the exact poundage tho.
 
handloads did make my mini 30 go from a 6 inch rifle to a 2.5 inch rifle at 100 yards.i really hate to handload for a mini tho as they kik the brass to the moon and i can never find much of it.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2013, 10:23:11 AM »
First I use a brass catcher on my Mini-14s.  My wife's boss caught a hot brass down his collar one afternoon, and he was three tables down from me.  I lined the brass catcher with that spray on rubber water proofing you see on TV.  Works well.

Second I ordered the strut that goes under the barrel.  It came in yesterday, and I installed it this morning.  Will take it to the range Monday for testing.  Will post the results.

Third on a different note, I found a Picatinny rail for my Ruger m-77.  It clamps on usiong the original Ruger cuts for the Ruger Rings.  I'm just not ready to take the scope off the gun at the moment.  It's Black Bear season, and I am using that rifle.   
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Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline MZ5

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2013, 11:53:39 AM »
Which strut did you get, Sourdough; the Accu-strut or the Mo-Rod? Which model?

My new-production Mini will hold sub-1" with a tried-and-true handload of 748 and 55-grain bullets WHEN it is fired slow-fire. When shot rapid-fire it'll string 'em. Many report the struts help bbl cooling (and help eliminate the stringing) significantly, so I'm curious about one.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2013, 09:22:43 PM »
The Accustrut X-drill in stainless.
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Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline gstewart44

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2013, 01:01:27 PM »
Quote from: Sourdough on June 08, 2013, 09:22:43 PM
The Accustrut X-drill in stainless.
Hey SD - have you been able to tell an improvement in accuracy/grouping?   
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Offline hillbill

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2013, 03:24:05 PM »
Quote from: gstewart44 on June 10, 2013, 01:01:27 PM
Quote from: Sourdough on June 08, 2013, 09:22:43 PM
The Accustrut X-drill in stainless.
Hey SD - have you been able to tell an improvement in accuracy/grouping?

i know yur prob hunting the black bear but when yu git time let us know your honest opinion about the strut?  i hope you get a big ole fat glossy one!
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Offline MZ5

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Re: Why so much difference?
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2013, 04:25:20 PM »
Quote from: Sourdough on June 08, 2013, 09:22:43 PM
The Accustrut X-drill in stainless.

Thanks!  Been out of town myself.  Would also like to read your honest, complete review/thoughts of it, once you get your bear. ;)
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