Failure to extract: 338 Federal

[guns-o-fun]

I just picked up a 338 Federal Prohunter barrel here on GBO.  It will extract an unfired round, but when I fire one, the extractor misses it as the action opens - goes right by it.  I am thinking that expansion of the case along its length might have something to do with it.  The extractor is not spring loaded, right?  As far as I can see, it just canterlevers against the frame as the action opens.  Anybody had this problem with rimless cases?  Thanks in advance for any info or advice on how to fix this problem.

[wallypedal]

The extractor is spring loaded, there is a flat spring about  1/8" wide and 3/4" long, slightly curved, that pushes the extractor up into the rim. You should be able to feel spring resistance with the action open by pushing down towards the trigger - the spring should hold it up in it's slot in the breech. The extractor channel and spring area can get gunked up - I suggest cleaning thoroughly before worry about dismantling. Dismantling involves removing the barrel from the frame, then driving out the roll pin that is in line with the extractor. I suggest using exactly the right size punch with a square flat end. I have boogered up the end of roll pins and created a ton of difficulty for myself getting those things out!
With the pin out, slowly pull or push the extractor out of the lug. Watch for the flat spring and how it fits. If there is none, there's the problem! It goes into a shallow slot machined into the extractor, ends down against the extractor. As it is a used barrel, the previous owner may have lost the spring or installed it incorrectly. The extractor itself may have had it's "ears" polished or ground down in an effort to lessen tension or friction on the case when loading. Might have taken too much off. Some users have had success by bending the extractor ever so slightly on the breech end, just enough to help it bite the rim. Good luck!!     Wallypedal

[guns-o-fun]

Thanks.  I cleaned everything.  I finally pulled the extractor and bent the spring a bit so that there is a bit more upward push on the extractor.  Thinking I might have a rough chamber, I polished it with bore paste followed by flitz on a slightly oversized bore mop mounted in a hand drill.  Now it will extract the fired case in a certain position but if the case is turned too far around its axis, it will not extract!?!?     I am thinking that I may have a tight chamber and a slightly crooked chamber.  If this were the case, the polishing might help and the spent case might only extract when in the position when fired or close to it.  I thought quality control on the Encore was better than this.  Frankly, I have had less trouble with handi rifles!!

[wallypedal]

Does the so-called 'pressure ring' above the web look more pronounced on one side than the other? For me, extracting a fired case only happens one time. Rotating it and closing the action on it doesn't tell me much, it's that first time out that counts. I still wonder if the extractor itself got polished or ground down from original configuration. Were these cases new in this rifle from fired factory ammo, or made from fired brass from another source? Or made from scratch by you using new brass? I have also had problems with 1x fired brass from other rifles, even though I full-length size. The brass itself could be small or rounded right where you don't need it to be in order for the extractor to grab on. Not sure there's much wrong with Encore quality control, it's hard to say. Since you bought the barrel only, it's hard to say what's been done with it. Did you have trouble with your other barrel(s), or did you buy the frame separate and this is the first barrel you've tried. Like to see you get it figured out.
Wallypedal

[guns-o-fun]

Yes, if it extracts the first time, then I am good.  This was factory ammo fired fresh.  At first, it would not extract at all.  Now that I have polished up the chamber and worked on the spring, it extracts in one position and very close to that position only.  I am hoping that it has nothing to do with the chamber.  The extractor looks new - no file or stoning marks whatsoever.  There is no visible distortion in the case near the case head, at the web or at the front of the case.  It looks pretty darn uniform for a fired case to the naked eye.  Don't have my caliper gauge here with me, unfortunately.  That's at our place up in the hills....

[guns-o-fun]

PS:  My other barrel is a Katahdin 460 Smith and it works just fine, so I don't think it has anything to do with the frame dimensions.  The frame is a new frame anyway...

[wallypedal]

It could be the extractor itself. This thread: http://www.encoreclassifieds.com/index.php?t=msg&th=4255&prevloaded=1&&start=
has a number of people with similar problems. Some did have success putting a slight bend in the extractor. It could be just the brand of ammo and the rim and groove dimensions. They aren't exactly the same from one brand to another. Might be worth a call to Thompson/Center, they might send you a new extractor.
Wallypedal

[guns-o-fun]

wallypedal,  Problem apparently solved.  I looked at the extractor with a good hand lens and it appeared that it had been rounded very slightly by someone - probably looking to make it a little easier to remove fired cases.  First, I searched all over for a new extractor - Brownells, Midway, Numrich, and even contacted TCA.  Even they had none in stock.  So, I very, very carefully peened the extractor on my vise using a small steel punch, then with a large diameter brass punch to try to make it as uniform as possible and remove rough spots.  I also used a mini flat file to remove a little metal from the bottom of the barrel in the extractor slot to give the extractor more vertical range of motion.  Done!  Now she extracts a fired case reliably in any position.  Word to the wise:  If you come across an opportunity to purchase an extra extractor for your barrel or barrels, grab it!  Smith and Wesson has apparently screwed up the supply chain on Encore parts.  I could not find one anywhere!

[Keith L]

For most TC parts I have had the best luck from TC.  Most of the time in the old days they would send what you needed free.  I haven't needed parts since Smith took over.
 
Another place to check is Ed's Contenders.  He tends to have many things needed, and is great to work with.

[wallypedal]

wallypedal,  Problem apparently solved.  I looked at the extractor with a good hand lens and it appeared that it had been rounded very slightly by someone - probably looking to make it a little easier to remove fired cases.  First, I searched all over for a new extractor - Brownells, Midway, Numrich, and even contacted TCA.  Even they had none in stock.  So, I very, very carefully peened the extractor on my vise using a small steel punch, then with a large diameter brass punch to try to make it as uniform as possible and remove rough spots.  I also used a mini flat file to remove a little metal from the bottom of the barrel in the extractor slot to give the extractor more vertical range of motion.  Done!  Now she extracts a fired case reliably in any position.  Word to the wise:  If you come across an opportunity to purchase an extra extractor for your barrel or barrels, grab it!  Smith and Wesson has apparently screwed up the supply chain on Encore parts.  I could not find one anywhere!

Glad to hear it's working! I tinker on things and enjoy it for the most part, sounds like you do, too. I use a hand lens at 10x and 20x often when working on the tiny stuff. Have also found a tungsten carbide 'point' file from the automotive world useful for fine filing jobs.
Wallypedal

[guns-o-fun]

Yes, I do enjoy it - after I get over the aggravation of having something that does not work right!  One of the ways I pass my time in retirement.  Of course, I can only afford retirment because of a small pension and a wife who makes a lot more money than I did...