Author Topic: 7.5 Swiss? (Read 1338 times)

Squirrelsaurus Rex · « **on:** February 11, 2004, 04:26:39 PM »

I was looking around at the local sporting goods store today where they sell military surplus rifles. They have a Schmidt-Rubin K31 in excellent condition. It has a straight-pull bolt with a large safety ring at the rear. I've never seen one before, but I like oddball stuff, and this one is in such good shape that I fell in love with it. Nice finish, no damage except for some dings in the stock, smooth action, no rust or corrosion, excellent sights, clean bore, six-round detachable box magazine. It looks like it was never issued. Price is $199. The manufacturing date would be somewhere between 1931 and 1957, when they stopped making them. I really want to buy it, but the problem is ammo. I don't handload, so I can't do anything with it if there's no factory ammo available.

I've been searching around, and so far I've found Norma makes 7.5 Swiss (7.5x55), but it's $35 for a box of 20 (OUCH!). Old Western Scrounger has some Hornady for $26/box, but I can't find it on Hornady's website, so I don't know if what they have is just a leftover batch or if Hornady is still making it or what. OWS also has military surplus for $14/box, but it doesn't say if it's the corrosive type, which is too much of a pain to mess with. So those three is all I can find. Does anyone know anything about this caliber, any other companies that make ammo for it? I really want to buy the rifle because it's unique and in beautiful shape, but I need the ammo or I can't shoot it. Handloading isn't an option at this point in my life (tight budget, small apartment, three kids, etc).

Jack Crevalle · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2004, 01:38:35 AM »

You can get K31's on-line now for as little as $89. Those are kind of you-take-what-you-get though. If this one is in as good a shape as you say, it's probably worth it, especially if you don't have a C&R lic.

The best store-bought ammo is the milsurp GP-11. It is sold as "match" ammo and is really accurate. AIM surplus www.aimsurplus.comhas 480 rounds for $168, 60 for $23 and 10 for $4. It is FMJ and berdan-primed. You shouldn't care about the priming though if you don't reload. All the ammo I list here is non-corrosive BTW.

There is also Portugese FNM ammo you can find this at L.C. Enterprises www.militaryshooters.com as well as other places. It is FMJ and boxer-primed. It is not very accurate.

Graf & Sons sells Hornady branded 7.5 Swiss ammo also. I have never tried it so I can't speak to it's accuracy. It is boxer primed and I, believe, soft point.

One other thing, the ring is also a cocking piece as well as the safety.

Mikey · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2004, 06:04:52 AM »

Thanks for catching up to the Squirrelsuarus on the issue of 7.5 ammo and rifles. Mikey.

Squirrelsaurus Rex · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2004, 06:12:14 AM »

Thanks for the info. I don't think I can pass it up, so I'll probably buy it. Now I just have to figure out how to explain it to the wife...

The price may sound a bit high, but there's a couple of other things to consider. I live in a very expensive area (San Francisco Bay area), prices here are much higher than most other parts of the country. Plus, buying online means going through a local FFL, and the dealers in my area charge ridiculous fees for this. One charges $100 for the transaction, another charges $175. So buying this one I found at the shop would end up being cheaper for me.

What's the difference between Berdan primed and boxer primed, and does this difference alone affect accuracy?

Jack Crevalle · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2004, 06:36:58 AM »

Almost all ammo produced in the U.S. is boxer primed. Most of the rest of the world uses the Berdan system. The biggest impact is to reloaders. Boxer primed cases have a single flash hole in the center of the primer pocket and the primer itself has a anvil inside. A centered decapping pin can punch out the old primer from the mouth of the case.

Berdan primed cases have an anvil built into the primer pocket in the case. There are two flash holes concentrically located about the center anvil. These allow the flame from the primer to reach the powder. It takes a special tool to remove these primers and the operation is much slower. It is harder, but not impossible, to find Berdan primers in the U.S. so most people simply discard Berdan primed cases here.

As far as accuracy is concerned. There is no difference other than the difference that you can note by changing any manufacturers primers in a load changes the characterisitics. That is, experimentation has shown that changing primers from one manufacturer to another or changing standard to magnum primers can effect velocity by 7%.

One ironic thing about this whole business is that the Berdan system, used in Europe, was invented by an American and the Boxer system, used in the U.S., was invented by an Englishman.

SBF · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2004, 10:51:35 AM »

If dealers charge that much in your area it would be worth it for you to get a Curio & Relic FFL for $30 (valid for three years) for just this one purchase alone. $90.00 for the rifle plus $30.00 for the FFL + a couple of stamps to mail out your FFL to wholeseller still is about a $65.00 - $70.00 saving. If you ever want another C&R eligible rifle you can have it sent to your door, no more huge dealer markups or crazy transfer fees. The FFL will take about a month to get from when you send in your paperwork which is nothing more tedious than filling out a Form 4473.

BTW - Dealers in my area charge between $25-$40 for a transfer.

BTW - I own a K31, it's the best shooting "old" gun I have. even with iron sights I was shooting a 2.22" 5 shot group at 100 yards. I've shot one's with scopes that will hold MOA w/o a problem with GP11 (milsurp) ammo.

Good Luck!

Squirrelsaurus Rex · « **Reply #6 on:** February 12, 2004, 11:34:21 AM »

Quote from: SBF

If dealers charge that much in your area it would be worth it for you to get a Curio & Relic FFL for $30

That sounds like an interesting idea. How do you deternine if a firearm is 'C&R eligible'?

Anyway, it's a little late for that. I went down there today to put it on layaway. I'll pick it up in a few weeks after I've taken care of some other bills. I only had it on hold for 24 hours and I didn't want someone else to buy it first. That's happened to me before, and I didn't want it to happen again. It doesn't include any accessories, except for the original leather sling. I brought some cleaning supplies with me, and they let me clean the bore first to get a real good look at it. It's pristine. Clean and shiny, with sharp rifling all the way to the muzzle. The serial numbers on the receiver, bolt, and magazine all match.

I also got a nice surprise today when I went to put it on layaway. The person yesterday made a mistake on the price. He didn't realize it was on sale for $149, so it was less than I expected.

1911crazy · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2004, 12:47:38 PM »

Here's the wholesalers/dealers on the net the prices are as follows;

AIM SURPLUS;
K31 swiss rifle good to very good condition $89.95 (excellent bore)

SOG (southern ohio gun)
K31 swiss rifle good condition List $299 your cost $89.95
7.5 Swiss match ammo (7.5x53.5) 60rds for $23.95
480rds for $184.00

Century Arms
K31 swiss rifle good condition $89.87
K31 swiss rifle cracked stock $79.87
7.5 swiss ammo (7.5x53.5) 10rds for $4.87
480rds for $216/87

On ammo it sure pays off to shop around!!!! BigBill

You can checkout their websites on the net. Your dealer is giving you a good price it lists for $299.

Jack Crevalle · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2004, 12:52:44 PM »

Between shipping, getting your C&R ( 6-8 weeks ) or FFL transfer, you're better off paying the $149. Plus you already know what it looks like. Even with paying a "hand picked" fee, you're still buying a pig in a poke.

Stuffy25thIA · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2004, 12:53:00 PM »

When you get it, take the butt plate off and see if the guy's name it was issued to is under it. I have one, and the tag is there with his name and age. Doesn't really mean to much, but just kinda neat.

1911crazy · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2004, 01:01:54 PM »

Quote from: Jack Crevalle

Between shipping, getting your C&R ( 6-8 weeks ) or FFL transfer, you're better off paying the $149. Plus you already know what it looks like. Even with paying a "hand picked" fee, you're still buying a pig in a poke.

It depends how many C&R's you plan on buying if you need your C&R or not. Here at out of state gun shows I can't even buy ammo without my C&R FFL. I'm sure it helps to mailorder ammo too with some dealers to have your C&R FFL. Some parts/accessorie houses also give a discount if your C&R FFL is on file with them. So the $30 dollar investment will pay off many times over. BigBill

Squirrelsaurus Rex · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2004, 09:02:17 PM »

Quote from: BigBill

7.5 Swiss match ammo (7.5x53.5)

I thought it was 7.5x55...?

Jack Crevalle · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2004, 01:38:19 AM »

Quote from: BigBill

Quote from: Jack Crevalle
Between shipping, getting your C&R ( 6-8 weeks ) or FFL transfer, you're better off paying the $149. Plus you already know what it looks like. Even with paying a "hand picked" fee, you're still buying a pig in a poke.

It depends how many C&R's you plan on buying if you need your C&R or not. Here at out of state gun shows I can't even buy ammo without my C&R FFL. I'm sure it helps to mailorder ammo too with some dealers to have your C&R FFL. Some parts/accessorie houses also give a discount if your C&R FFL is on file with them. So the $30 dollar investment will pay off many times over. BigBill

If he loses a good rifle for the chance of getting a comparable one through luck of the draw, it's hardly a savings. If he wants to continue collecting more in the future he can start the paperwork for that purpose.

1911crazy · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2004, 02:06:33 AM »

Quote from: Jack Crevalle

Quote from: BigBill
Quote from: Jack Crevalle
Between shipping, getting your C&R ( 6-8 weeks ) or FFL transfer, you're better off paying the $149. Plus you already know what it looks like. Even with paying a "hand picked" fee, you're still buying a pig in a poke.

It depends how many C&R's you plan on buying if you need your C&R or not. Here at out of state gun shows I can't even buy ammo without my C&R FFL. I'm sure it helps to mailorder ammo too with some dealers to have your C&R FFL. Some parts/accessorie houses also give a discount if your C&R FFL is on file with them. So the $30 dollar investment will pay off many times over. BigBill

If he loses a good rifle for the chance of getting a comparable one through luck of the draw, it's hardly a savings. If he wants to continue collecting more in the future he can start the paperwork for that purpose.

Jack your right too I have done the same thing too when i see something in better condition at a local dealer too even if its a little higher priced its worth it. BigBill

RB Rooson · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2004, 01:56:55 PM »

Squirrel.......,

Go to this site: www.oldgunsupply.com

I have bought GP-11 ammo from them for $30.00 (60 round pkg.) and I had never even seen a K-31 until 4 months ago......one of the more unique and absolutely accurate rifles that I own. God was smiling on me the day that I saw it!

Have fun with the K-31, it is a gun that you will never regret buying!!