38-55 First test fire

[Grumpybear]

I finely got everything together to fire the new to me 38-55 target classic.
 
 

 
I first loaded up a few dummy rounds to test the chamber.

The left one was first and I bell the mouth of the case to much. It did go into the chamber with a friction fit. I miced the brite ring were it rubbed to .402
The second round in the middle I was more carefull with the sizeing die and it droped into the chamber no problem. It miced at the top of the case at .396
The empty case is the one i fired. No soot on the outside, miced the web at .420 book says it should be .4191 and the mouth of the case miced at .3995 book calls for .3922.
So not to bad all in all
 

I'm not so happy with the bullet. First this looks like a gas check bullet, maybe someone with more knowing can comment on it. Looks like almost 1/2 was lost shooting into 6 inchs of builders sand. It also looks like it was gas jetting on 1 side. A little hard to see in the pic, I did have the tripod on the macro lens so ...
 
Looks like I will have to cast the bore and the chamber and get a custom mold made, or goto a safter bullet. I dono  Any comments would be welcome.
 
The load I was shooting was 23 grs of 3031 under this 260 gr bullet. 4 feet from the dirt, penetrated 6 inchs
 
Now, If i could find a caster in NE Florida to help with a few cast bullets after I get a mold.
 
Thanks for comments  Grumpy

[tomtomz]

Sounds like you're doing it the right way.

I admit that I defer to http://www.missouribullet.com/
when I have issues with cast bullets. I buy from them
because they are a good value and their technical support
is simply unbeatable. They can also determine the Brinell scale
(bullet alloy hardness) needed for your application, and will
likely have what you need to minimize bore leading.

They helped me to develop a subsonic 30-06 load using
300 Blackout bullets, which I could not have done without their help.

I am suggesting that buying a box of bullets from them
and having them walk you through or check your measurements
will produce better results than this forum is likely to.

[cwlongshot]

The '55 is a great caliber. One could LLoyd it from mild to wild in a strong action like our handis.

I have settled on the mild side for mine and 10g Unique and a 145g lead. It shoots very well.

Good luck with yours.

CW

[gcrank1]

And that bullet mic's at what dia.? What you relate here sound much like too small a bullet dia. syndrome. If yours are .378 or less its too small.
My 'rule of thumb' for any cast bullet regardless of caliber: Use a cast bullet that is as close to nicely fitting in the 'fully fire-formed' case mouth as possible. Avoid resizing the case neck down, most diesets reduce the neck dia. too much for jacketed bullets and a cast bullet pressed into that will be? I use unresized cases in my single shots. The bullet that fits my 38-55s (two) is the Lee, as cast, but I have to thin the case necks (a case neck turning tool would be nice). I must get around to making a .379 size die one day and lapp it to 'my' prefect fit. If your fully fire formed brass will take a .380, or even .381 bullet and will chamber back up and extract cleanly I suspect it will work fine. The typical situation is the H&R chamber neck wont allow a bullet of sufficient dia. for the groove dimension of the barrel, so you MUST use as large a dia, bullet as you can.
OR
I could just do it the quick and dirty way and get the neck reamer from 4D and relieve the oft too tight chamber neck of the Target Model so it takes .381s straightaway. Yours might benefit from this approach too after trying my suggestions.
BTW, my two TMs will hit nicely from close on to at least 200yd. with cast bullets, so something is working here for me  .

[Grumpybear]

Thanks for the info, but I think I have a .400 chamber already. The dummy load I made mics at .396 at the mouth with a .381 bullet in it. It chambered nicely with no friction and closed with no friction. The first dummy round a made hade a mouth size of .402 after removal friction fit. So I think I have a good chamber, the bore is at least .381.
 
My current problem is geting some bullets big enuff to test on the range. The ones i have look like a gas check base which starts the jetting being so small .355 dia. Needless to say I'm not happy with them. I'm looking at some .381 with a plain base (which is what I thought I had ordered). I will order them tomorrow so maybe I can test them in a week or two.
 
It's all very interesting sorting out the details to get this to shoot well. The hard part is finding a small sample of bullets to test, then I'll look at casting and sizeing my own.
 
All in all it's like a puzzle and I'm injoying the process of sorting it all out.
If there's not fun in it, there's no joy
 
Thanks Grumpy

[gcrank1]

Lucky you with that chamber neck to be able to use .381 right off, though with .010 case neck walls you are up there at .400 with only a bit of neck tension. Regardless, those bullets may work with a different powder in a lighter loading. My friends Lee PB bullet casts at .381ish and is cheap enough to try.

[craigster]

gcrank1,


What alloy are you using with the Lee mould? Also, do you tumble lube or ? Thanks!


Craig

[gcrank1]

Garagalloy!
Basically 50/50 wheel weights and range scrap (a lot of 22s and cast pistol bullets in it, as well as round ball, etc.; I est. the scrap is about half soft/hardish alloy). A dash of tin to the melt, no more than 5%, to improve casting, and I have been finger lubing the grooves with TC Bore Butter (only because I have it), but tumble lube with Lee would be OK. If Lee had a pushthru sizer for .379/
.380/.381 Id have already bought one. They will make 'custom sizes' for a fairly reasonable fee so maybe I should have them make a batch.
FWIW, that Lee mould is about .001 out of round on the base, say .380-.381 in dia. variance with this alloy, so a sizer would even that out; mostly for ease of loading and neck dia. loaded.
Im using a full case of TrailBoss behind that bullet and its hitting where its looking.

Hey G-Bear, what brass are you using and what velo is that 3031 load going at?

[Grumpybear]

I'm running under the start load from Lymans Cast Bullet Handbook.
It recomends 26 gr of imr3031 to start with I used 23 gr to just make sure everything was working. I also wanted a fired case to mic out.
 
Funny thing is, after fireing the round I can now hand load (push in with figer pressure) a .381 bullet into the fired case if I dont full length size it. Now i gota crimp the case.
 
If its not one thing it's three.      Grumpy

[gcrank1]

I use just enough to close the very slight bell up and a 'tad' more; not even really a visible crimp, but all is held nicely together.
Another brand or even lot of brass could have just enough thicker neck walls to change that fit for you.

[Grumpybear]

Oh  you asked about the brass.
 
I use 2.162 new starline brass. All i did was debur the insida and outside and expand the neck for the bullet.
 
Grumpy

[gcrank1]

Im not resizing, just decap with a universal decapper, recap, Lee universal belling die to flare a tad, charge and bullet down with the seater die. It goes very quickly on my old 3 station Lee turret press and it is easy to make little changes. Ive found it to not be a fussy cartridge, nor any leading with my load, alloy and soft lube. Fortunately I can step out back on the 50yd. for trials or a short walk to the neighbor's field for 150ish yd.  . Trust me that Im not trying to rub it in to you who are not so lucky; I know Im blessed.
BTW, I have no connection with Lee other than Im a very satisfied customer for many years now, and they are a 'local'; ie, in my state company, so I support them.
My brass is the WW 38-55 at 2.080 with .010-.011 thick necks. My chambers will not take the long Starline, they wouldnt drop all the way in on a trial fit.. With my Lee bullet at .380-.381 I have to thin the neck wall to .008 to chamber up.
Ive also used a full throat dia. bullet breech seated with a shortened case up behind; as in schuetzen, and it worked quite well, but was futzy and only suited to offhand loading and shooting being a tip-up rifle. I prefer fixed ammo even for schuetzen, though Ive taken two prepped cases and used one throughout, loading as I went, and keeping the other in reserve in case of need. It was a fun and nicely paced way to load and shoot for an afternoon.