Encore .44 mag rifle problem

[biggjimm]

Hello all. I'm new here & have a few ?'s. I have a .44 mag rifle barrel that I just picked up for deer season this year. It Is a 22" stainless fluted pro hunter heavy barrel from T/C's custom shop. It has a twist rate of 1in 20" I had a couple boxes of hornady 225 gr. leverevolition loads left over from hunting with my lever gun last year & they won't shoot for nothing in this barrel. They shot extremely well in my marlin last year. I've put about 80 rounds thru it thinking it was a scope mount issue & I know my scope mounts are solid now & best I can get Is about 4" groups at 100 yds & this is not acceptable to me. This barrel should shoot sub 1" moa I would think. I was really starting to get frustrated & then I thought about bullet weight & twist rate. My marlin had a much slower rate (1 in 38" I think) than this encore barrel & it shot the 225 gr extremely well. I'm thinking that with the faster 1 in 20" twist maybe the heavier bullets would stabilize better so I picked up some hornady 300 gr custom loads today & I'm gonna try & get to the range tomorrow & try them out but just wanted to get some others opinions on the matter. I don't reload yet so I'm stuck with whatever factory loaded stuff is available for now but I know this barrel will shoot like I expect it to I just have to figure out what it likes. Thanks. Biggjimm.

[wallypedal]

Custom shop or not, I suggest chamber casting. I've wasted a pile of components in the past, not knowing chamber dimensions, throat concentricity, etc. Encore barrels are especially easy to cast, and then you will know what's inside for sure.
Wallypedal

[Cemo]

I think you are on the right track with 300 gr or even just 240. My Ruger Deerfield has 1-20 twist and is very accurate with 240 gr. Never tried 300 gr as the Deerfield mag limits their use. The .44 out of a rifle is a very good deer slayer. Good luck with your deer hunt.

[wallypedal]

Companies making rifles in .44 Mag have not standardized twist rate or throating specs. It would be handy to know where the rifling starts and how much "jump" the different bullets have to the rifling, less being better. Some people have resorted to casting and loading specialty bullets which are longer than normal, in order to have enough bullet to seat decently and still minimize jump. Hope that's not the condition for you!
Wallypedal

[biggjimm]

What's the best way to cast the chamber? I've never done one but have read of people using lead or candle or crayon wax & even a hot glue gun???

[biggjimm]

I haven't cast the chamber yet but I have some dimensions as far as length's go. These are within 0.020". Not exact by machinists standards but close enough to get an idea of what I have. And I don't think I like what I'm seeing. From the breech face of the barrel the cut for the rim is .068", the forcing cone starts at 1.275" & the rifling starts at 1.960". The hornady cases are 1.260", that's .700" from the mouth of the case to the start of the rifling. Is that extreme? I've been contemplating a rechamber to .445 super mag for this & a pistol barrel I have. The .445 is only .345" longer than the .44 mag so that still might make for a sloppy chamber even if It its hogged out to .445. I don't know. I guess I need to call the guy I was thinking about doing the rechamber & ask him. That might be the way to go. I'm going to go shoot this tomorrow with the 300 gr xtp's & see how it does. If it shoots them well I'll be ok I guess. Maybe I'm making too much out of all this but that forcing cone seems exceptionally long to me.

[Iowa Fox]

I'm not sure when TC went to the long forcing style throat in the 44 Mag barrels. I have a couple Super 16s in 44 mag and they do not have a forcing cone throat. I purchased one of the very first 12" Encore barrels brand new when they were first announced and it has the forcing cone. I have 2 -10" 357 mag barrels of the same vintage. The blue one has a nicely throated barrel, the stainless one has the long forcing cone just like the 44 mag. The barrels with the regular throats will outshoot the forcing cone barrels or a least mine do. If your a cast bullet shooter the forcing cone throats are going to lead no matter what you try. I'd like to hear from some former TC employee or someone here in the know as to TCs thinking with these throats. It could be TC reached their limit one day replacing stretched frames from the handloaders and said thats enough of this stuff. Or did they order new reamers one day and got some SAMI spec reamers and had some old left that were good so they had both styles leaving the facotry.

[biggjimm]

The .44 mag rifle barrel I'm referring to is supposedly from the last batch the custom shop ran & that was '08 from what the guy at T/C said. I have a 12" .44 mag barrel that also has the forcing cone but it is not near as long as in the rifle barrel. On the 12" barrel it's only about .480". Seems like quite a bit of difference in these chambers. I shot it today w/ the 300 gr xtp's & it shot rather well I think. I couldn't shoot at the range cause the police department is training this week so I didn't have a good solid rest but off of the hood of my truck I had groups under 2" at 100yds with a varying crossword from calm to 12-14 mph at times so under the conditions I'm pleased with how it's shooting the heavier bullets. Hopefully if I can get to the range this weekend & shoot I can get it to shooting one big ragged hole groups like my muzzleloader barrel does. I started shooting a new powder & sabot combination this year & my 209 x 50 ML barrel shoots 100yd groups like my .223 rem barrel. It is incredibly accurate & a lot easier to load & clean with the powder I'm shooting now. Well thanks for the input guys. I'll let you know how the next range session goes.

[curator]

I am new to the T/C Encore and its 12 inch .44 Magnum barrel. I bought it in part because my Handi Rifle wouldn't shoot heavier bullets very well past 25 yards. My Handi's .44 barrel was probably rifled by Marlin and has the 1 in 38" twist. My favorite .44 Mag bullet in my Ruger SBHs is the LBT .432/280LFN. It shoots like a house on fire with the LBT bullet with both heavy and light loads. With the Encore I can seat the bullet way out and stuff more powder under it because of the long throat. I can't do this with the revolvers. Also don't need to crimp with the bullet jammed into the throat I get excellent accuracy and very small velocity variations using W296, H110, and AA#9.

[Ranger99]

to make a chamber cast you need
to buy a little block of cerrosafe.
they sell at brownell's, dixie gun works,
midway, etc.
i think it still comes with a little
instruction paper.

[biggjimm]

I think what I may do is cut .444 marlin brass down to our Indiana max cartridge length of 1.8" & have bellms tc's cut my chamber to accommodate the 1.8" length .44 case. Seems I can get rid of the factory forcing cone altogether & have a nice throated chamber when it's done. Also I'm thinking with the extra case length & more powder capacity with some slower burning rifle powder to take advantage of the 22" barrel length I might just be able to get this .44 out to 200-250 yd range. That would be a nice deer rifle I'm thinking. I'm not too worried about loading for a wildcat because I think it might even be easier than loading for the .445 super mag beings only 1 company sells brass for it. At least with the .444 brass I can get it a few different places. What do you guys think?

[biggjimm]

Got to the range today finally & got this rifle shooting pretty darn good I think.  With hornady custom 300gr xtp's at 100yds shooting at 1" bullseyes, 4 shot groups the worst or four groups had all four holes touching the bull. Two holed touching, the 3rd up .5" & the 4th was right of the 3rd about .5". The other three groups all had 3 touching with a flyer out about .5" but still in the bull. I think that's pretty good for a 300gr .44 at 100yds. Now I'm thinking do I leave this barrel alone or if I rechamber like I spoke of above, can I get the longer range w/ the extra powder capacity & hope for the same accuracy? Obviously it's s good barrel to get the groups I'm getting with the extra long forcing cone chamber so as long as the rechamber is done correctly one would think the accuracy would only improve. I'm going to hunt with it like it is for now & I might do something after season. Thanks for all the input guys. I really pushed it out this year considering gun season starts sat. morning & it is now thurs. evening. Usually I'd havew everything dialed in several weeks ago. Oh well. I'm good now.

[Singlebarrel]

I really like the Leverevolution bullets in most of my guns, but some guns will simply flat out not shoot them well.  The guns seem to either love them or hate them.  Maybe your gun just don't like them.