Tell me.....

[tsigmon]

... the error of my thinking.  The frustration of my 7mm-08 has got me to thinking. Why is  the lock up  and tension on the forarm screw so important  on these Handi's ? .  With the scope rail mounted to the  barrel and the scope and rings on that (assuming all mounted correctly) this is basicly a single unit.In theory (my theory anyway) it should shoot consistantly no matter how it locks up. I can see where the forend screw could make a difference in barrel movement but if it stays at the same torque it should be  fairly consistant too. I guess I have a slow learning curve.

[twoshooter]

Some of the experts will be along soon I would think, but I would assume that it has something to do with the fact that a handi has a single locking point , offset somewhat from the bore, the lock is not consistent from shot to shot. With a bolt, where the locking lugs have a more repeatable torque, the lugs spread the force equally around the circumference, and most modern bolts are free floated and the drop is less. That does not mean a handi cannot be accurate, just that there are more variables to be attended to.

[Buster95]

Probably a dumb question but why not a pin like like this one for the handis http://www.eabco.com/EncorePin.html

[petemi]

The pin on the Handi is already locked in place.  It fits tight to a spline and doesn't move.  It has to be driven out with a drift.  It would seem to me if the pin wore in time it could be driven out, rotated 90 degrees and reinstalled.  If my assumption is wrong, I'm sure someone will be along to set me straight.

Pete

[tsigmon]

[quote author=twoshooter =268709.msg1099610334#msg1099610334 , I would assume that it has something to do with the fact that a handi has a single locking point , offset somewhat from the bore, the lock is not consistent from shot to shot. ]
 
The inconsistent lock up I can understand,but with the scope mounted to the barrel and in alingment wth the bore it seems to me  that no matter how it locks up the scope  is still in alingment with the bore and barrel. Not trying to argue ,just trying to figure it out.[/quote]

[quickdtoo]

Forend pressure on the frame and the barrel affects barrel harmonics for one thing, there's no way to float the barrel completely like on a bolt gun where the barrel is completely free of touching anywhere ahead of the chamber, not possible on a Handi due to the forend stud mounting. You can find out exactly how much the forend affects accuracy by shooting without the forend attached resting the the rifle just  ahead of the trigger guard.

Tim

[gcrank1]

Maybe think about it like this; equate it to handgun shooting if you will:
Yes, the scope, or sights, are mounted and effectively one piece. If they are 'mounted' firmly and consistently up to a frame/buttstock, or in the handgun analogy, your hand/arm, the shots go to the same POI. If you hold that handgun tight one time and loosely the next, or your rifle is 'sloppy' in its fit, the POI will change.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

if the lockup isn't tight and the same each time, when the rifle fires, the movement in the miliseconds from trigger pull to bullet exiting the bore will allow the bullet to leave on a different path

your logic is sound, but you don't allow for not being able to see the target through the scope upon firing.

if you could lock the receiver in a vise, put on one of those scopes with cameras, I think you'd see a loose lockup will allow the crosshairs to move off target by a fair bit....

[Sourdough]

Now you understand why I no longer change barrels.  Once I get the gun set up and shooting where I want it, I leave everything alone.  Back when I changed barrels the POI would change each time I replaced the barrel.  I will never do that again.  One receiver, one barrel. 

[YRUpunting?]

Now you understand why I no longer change barrels.  Once I get the gun set up and shooting where I want it, I leave everything alone.  Back when I changed barrels the POI would change each time I replaced the barrel.  I will never do that again.  One receiver, one barrel.

I've wondered about this for a while, so you are not removing the barrel when you clean the gun?

[gcrank1]

Clean a Handi?....whachu talkn bout......most everybody shoots 'em dirty (within reason, that is). If you are cleaning it out after every session you end up having to 'reseason' the bore before they settle back down to group. A few guys, and guns, are fussier, but try leaving it dirty, maybe just push a dry patch through after a session to bump the crud, if any, out. With a tip-up (or break-action as some call it) there is really no reason to dismount the barrel.

[twoshooter]

In theory even that makes a difference. In practice I have found that that makes far less difference than other variables. The scope does in fact stay with the barrel, it is the difference between the barrel and receiver that changes from shot to shot. In practice, in the field, you lean against a tree, over a rock or limb, over a coat on a pickup rack etc. I am not going to be shooting just by laying the gun on a bag, I HAVE to have a grip on that forearm, and that pressure both down and to whichever side I am resting against effects accuracy in the field. The ONLY place IMHO that this really matters is when working up and deciding on a load. Most of my loads for the large calibers seem to stay around 1.5" at 75 yards on my handgun/ cast range, from sandbags etc. That is how I pick the load to use.
      Once I have the load, if I really want to see how it performs, I will grab the gun, trot outside and shoot at a standard 2 pound coffee can or 2 liter soda bottle at from 50 to 100 yards, each time from a cold barrel, with a left side support, right support, over a limb or fence rail. If you can be confident of a solid hit on that coffee can first time, every time, in various light , wind and temperature, and rests, you are good to go for hunting at that range.  It is nice to have a tack driver, but how often do you hunt tacks. 

PS....... cleaning is something handis are picky about....... they seem to object 

[mechanic]

If you are ever around someone with an acetelyne torch, put a rod of steel in a vise, and hold onto the end, and let them just wave the torch over the middle.  You can feel the steel move.  If you have pressure on a barrel, it will move away from the pressure when heated.
 
When you fire the gun, the barrel will flex downward a wee bit toward the pivot, due to minute movement in the latch, and the pressure of the case head against  the frame.  By consistently "latching" the same, the movement stays the same.  There is no perfect machine.  Some may be more nearly perfect than others, but all have imperfections.  A break barrel rifle has it's benefits, and it's drawbacks.
 
JMO
 
Ben