encore 45-70

[firweed1969]

BACK IN SEPT. 2003 I BOUGHT AN ENCORE 45-70 BARREL TO ADD TO MY COLLECTION. AFTER MOUNTING A NIKON MONARCH 2-7X32 USING THE T/C DUO MOUNT, I WENT TO THE RANGE. TO MY SURPRIZE I COULD NOT ZERO BECAUSE I RAN OUT OF ELEVATION ADJUSTMENT IN THE SCOPE W/ THE GROUPS FALLING 9" LOW AT 100YDS. I THEN TRIED A LEUPOLD 3-9X40 VXII W/ LEUPOLD BASE & LOW DOVETAIL RINGS AND FOUND THE SAME PROBLEM. THEN I TRIED A .012" SHIM UNDER THE REAR OF THE BASE AND GOT WITHIN 3"(LOW) OF THE BULLSEYE AT 100YDS. I SENT THE BARREL BACK TO T/C, UPON RETURN OF THE FIXED BARREL LOL...I RETURNED TO THE RANGE ONLY TO FIND I'M STILL STUCK W/ THE SAME PROBLEM. I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO KNOW IF ANYONE OUT THERE HAS HAD EVER RUN INTO THIS.

[Bullseye]

I had a 209x50 that was the same way.  It now wears open sights.  My opinion, it is because of the funky tapered barrel.  A good portion of the scope mount hangs over the taper.  Who know if the base is flat or running downhill.  I have a 25-06 barrel that sighted in with the scope about optically centered.

Funny thing is my 209x50 was sighted in for a couple of years and then went low.  Did that base bend a little over time? Thought maybe it did, but it is the base that is now on my 25-06.

Enough rambling, I do not have an answer other than it happens and all you can do is shim the base.

[444encore]

This may not answer your question,but if a barrel is turned to the proper dimentions from the factory the overhanging portion of the mount should not effect anything. The best thing to do would be to mic the barrel at the first hole and then at the fourth. If both measurements are the same then you can't blame barrel taper. To shim this mount would definately reduce contact surface and cause problems with mount rigidity. A duo-mount would most likely work itself loose and the weaver style mount would bend. Beyond this, the only reason a barrel would cause such a problem is if it had a reverse taper, and a serious one at that. I think it may be time to mic your scope mount from end to end and also mic your your rings from contact surface to base and contact surface to scope. If nothing come's up from these tests either your barrel was bored off center
with max run out facing down at muzzle or your scope is defective.

[quicksdraw45]

RELEASE THE CAPLOCK ,IT MAKES YOUR POST HARD TO READ

I have a contender pistol barrel that shoots sub MOA but its 36 inches to the left , I used the burris zee signiture rings and the shims made for them to bring the groups to the center of the target . Best rings you can buy .

[Mike357]

My brother has a smaal store in virginia, his and a couple of customers scopes bottomed out with the adjustment.  We have only seen this on slug guns 12 and 20 gauge.   I had no problem with mine useing a simmons aetec.  ( all others were leupolds)

[firweed1969]

THANKS FOR ALL THE TIPS FELLOWS. I TOOK MY ENCORE TO MY LOCAL GUNSMITH TO LET HIM REMOUNT THE SCOPE BASE,RINGS,SCOPE AND TAKE THE RIFLE TO THE RANGE, JUST TO MAKE SURE ITS NOT ME. IF WE GET THE SAME RESULTS I'LL CONTACT T/C'S SERVICE DEPT. AGAIN. I'LL BE SURE TO POST MY RESULTS AS SOON AS I GET SOME.

[Brian T]

I have a 45-70 barrel also.  I had to buy burris rings with the graduated shims to get in to center, mine shot high though.  I had a similar (but less severe) problem with a new .308 barrel.  I bought the rifle initially as a muzzleloader and had no problem at all with it.

[firweed1969]

BRAIN T

THANKS FOR THE POST. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT TYPE OF AMMO U USED AND ALSO THE TYPES OF GROUPS U GOT. HOW MUCH WERE THE GROUPS FROM ZERO BEFORE U USED THE BURRIS RINGS? I PLAN ON PURCHASING THE SAME RINGS IF MY 45-70 COMES BACK FROM THE GUNSMITH IN THE SAME CONDITION(DEPENDING ON WHAT T/C CUSTOMER SERVICE IS WILLING TO DO ABOUT THE PROBLEM).

THANKS AGAIN, ANY INFO U CAN GIVE WOULD BE GREAT.
MY EMAIL IS joweed@sitestar.net

[firweed1969]

10-4 On the cap button...kind of new when it comes to talk w/ computers.

[hyltoto]

http://www.burrisoptics.com/rings.html

[pete50]

I had the same problem with my T/C Encore 209x50. I sent mine back to T/C and found they said the problem was fixed. WRONG!!! Still same point of impact. Finally returned to WalMart and exchanged for another barrel (nice of them). New barrel same problem, but much less degree. Finally took all the advice and bought the burris signature rings with the inserts. Had to use the .20 inserts, but they WORK great. It's the only way to go if you have this problem. This is a common problem that needs to be address by the factory, but isn't!!! Good Luck and get those burris rings!

[hyltoto]

Fix tis problem! It is costing you customers! Supply the burris base and rings if you don't have the engineering skill to identify the problem. Our Encores are going to plummet in value if you don't fix this. It is already starting here.

[EDG]

Hello,
 This is not really an Encore problem. The same thing happens with Browning 1885s and Ruger single shots in 45/70.  It is low velocity combined with limited adjustment range in your scopes.  I have looked through the bores of numerous low velocity rifles and they look like they are pointing up hill (high) about 3 feet at 100 yards when the cross hairs are aligned on the target. Try it --you will not believe it.  A low magnification fixed power scope such as the old Weaver K2.5 and others have much more adjustment range and will sight in with no problem. Go to the various scope manufacturers web sites and they will have adjustment range listed. Plus or minus 30 inches is not enough to sight these rifles in.
The best fix it the Burris Signature rings with the eccentric inserts. If you have a severe problem you may have to put .020 inserts in both rings which will give about 4 feet of correction. Make sure you start with the scope adjustments centered.

Ed

[hyltoto]

The shop I work with sell mucho TC stuff. Encores were selling like hot cakes ,in the muzzleloader configuration,untill this scope problem started word of mouth rumors about accuracy ( we can thank 3 pellets for that) and bad scope mounting. The remaining Encores set all year without takers while the Omegas are flying off the shelves. No one has ever had a problem mounting their Leupold 3.5 x 10 on the Omega. Considering the ballistics are similar, there might be an associated design issue. I tell guys buying a whole package to buy a 4 power scope, but many are counting upon transferring a scope they already own, and payed dearly for. Why couldn't T/C include a specially tapered base? They need a corrective action.

[EDG]

>>>Why couldn't T/C include a specially tapered base?<<<
I think all scope bases should be manufactured with some elevation built in. Of course some one would want to reverse a 2 piece base resulting in a problem. Even high velocity rounds have several inches of drop to be compensated for.
Leupold makes "long range" bases for some bolt rifles that have elevation built into them so the scope does not run out of elevation when sighted at long range.
Ed

[firweed1969]

Howdy Folks

I just wanted to let you all who were interested know that the burris signiture rings  w/ inserts was the way to go to fix the problem(+20 in  the rear & -5 in the front using double dovetail rings). Thanks for the tips. Its amazing the problems that you can run into w/ such a simple design, don't get me wrong I wouldn't trade my encore for anything, but it appears they (T/C) do have some quality control issues. They are fully aware of some of the problems as I have heard staight from the horses mouth (T/C). I was told that the 44cal along w/ the 45-70 are notorious for my kind of problem. After reading many posts it is obvious that this is not the only bug in the woodwork. I know you generally hear the bad stuff more often than the good, but some of these problems could be remedied w/ little effort. Why they are not addressed I don't know. Hope to hear nothing but good stuff from now on.  

                                                                   Hope All is Well...SB

[persistentprogrammer]

This is the exact reason that I will never buy a T/C factory barrel. It seems as though there's a 1 in 5 chance of a bad barrel.