Author Topic: How to load black powder???? (Read 2304 times)

Cheyenne Ranger · « **on:** December 13, 2002, 01:14:11 AM »

Are there any special considerations for using black powder in smokeless powder cartridges? How does the charge compare with, lets say, Red Dot?
thanks
Walt

Mikey · « **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2002, 08:17:24 AM »

Hay Walt: I think you had better ask this question on one of the Black Powder forums, because you don't weigh out black powder the way you weigh out smokeless powder.

I have some minor experience with black powder in a cap and ball revolver but none with black powder cartridges. If you are shooting a cap and ball revolver you may wish to consider the Pyrodex pellets, which are 30 grains in volume, cleaner to shoot, easier to load and deal with and purportedly give good accuracy in the revolvers. The few times I've shot cap and ball revolvers we just filled the chambers with powder, seated the ball on top, spread some grease over the end of the chamber, put the caps on and shot away. Not very precise but that's the way they were doing it.

If you are loading a black powder pistol cartridge you can use the Pyrodex pellets to the same effect, or so I have read. If you use straight black powder you have to measure by volume. You may wish to note that some black powder pistol cartridges identify the amount of powder to use, for example - the 32-20 (grains of black powder), 38-40, 44-40, 45 Colt (45-40). Some of the Cowboy Action shooters I have read about love to be able to reload their cartridges with those pellets as it is easier and gives a much more consistent charge.

Black Powder rifle cartridges apparently take some real skill, or persevearance, to load properly and I would recommend you look at the black powder rifle cartridge forum - there are a number of real experts who post there frequently or who can answer your questions for you.

Hope this helps. Mikey.

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 20, 2002, 03:04:04 PM »

Walt, there is one very important consideration when loading black powder cartridge, there must be NO airspace between powder and bullet!!

This is also important consideration numbers 2 and 3!!!!!!

Beyond that, I offer this website for your perusal: http://users3.ev1.net/~dave42/shoot/BP_for_CAS.htm

It will answer most of your questions, if you have more, I'd be tickled ta death to help!

I LOVE converting cowboy shooters to black powder!!!

Butler Ford

Holiday · « **Reply #3 on:** December 25, 2002, 08:31:44 AM »

Butlerford45 has got it right. Basically, you load as much powder into the case as it will hold and be compressed slightly when you seat the bullet. About 1/16 to 1/8 an inch is enough compression. Some folks put a cardboard disk or "wad" between the bullet and the powder, some don't. Some add a "cookie" or disk of appropiate blackpowder lube between the wad and the bullet as the wax based lube on the bullet dosn't work well with black powder. This last is especially useful in long guns. Mike Ventuino has a couple of books on the subject.

Holiday

Cheyenne Ranger · « **Reply #4 on:** December 28, 2002, 10:26:15 AM »

Factor,
any idea how fast you loads are traveling?
walt

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 29, 2002, 02:17:29 AM »

I don't have a chrony, and I can't remember where I found it, but the first martial 45 colt was 40gr bp under a 250/255gr bullet. MV from a 7 1/2" barrel was about 940. I've loaded many this way. Even modern magnum shooters will raise an eyebrow when they shoot'em the first time. It is a hoss of a load, 'specially when fired with one in each hand.

Factor, the voodoo can be a lot of fun!! :-D

Butler Ford

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** December 29, 2002, 09:54:51 AM »

There is now a Poll on the Request for New Forums Forum regarding adding a new forum just to discuss the subject of reloading black powder cartridges. If any of you have an interest in establishing such a forum you should vote for it. If I see enough interest I'll set it up.

GB

Old Cane · « **Reply #7 on:** December 31, 2002, 05:11:51 AM »

Ok, I found it.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2345

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #8 on:** December 31, 2002, 05:31:50 AM »

Graybeard,

First, as an FNG here, let me thank you for your efforts in creating and maintaining this board. It is much appreciated!!!

Regarding the Black Powder Cartridge forum yer considering: I think it's great idea. But the fellers in THIS forum (Cowboy Action Shooting) are concerned with BP in CAS related cartridges...IE pistol/revolver cartridges. The fellers asking fer the new forum are thinking more along the lines of Black Powder Cartridge Rifles such as the 45-70, 50-90, 45-110, etc. While those cartridges are used in CAS side matches, they are not the main focus of those of us who do the CAS thing a lot. (Actually, fewer than 20% of all CAS shooters ever get involved in the long range aspect of CAS)

Just my thoughts on the subject as it relates to this section of the forums, and only worth what ya paid fer em! :lol:

Old Cane · « **Reply #9 on:** December 31, 2002, 05:45:15 AM »

Good point Cuts. Would this be a good time to ask if there will be a cowboy classifieds?

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 31, 2002, 07:00:56 AM »

Cut's, I think I gotta disagree with ya on this one. Seems that nearly everyone I've run across that shoot black in their pistolas do either one of two things, 1 Quit using black as being too much trouble and mess, or 2 They start trying to put Black in everything. I believe them that hafta pack salt in their bullets to keep the meat from spoiling before they can get to it can learn from and offer ideas to them that try and shoot Black in a 32 H&R.

My 2 pennies

Butler Ford

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #11 on:** December 31, 2002, 08:35:15 AM »

Butler,

Don't git ta thinkin Ah wuz against the idea!!! I like it! I just thought that the focus here wuz CAS and CAS cartridges. And, as noted, a fairly small percentage of CAS shooters do the long range thing on a regular basis. If you start looking at the score sheets from matches around the country you find an incredably small number of participants in the Buffalo Rifle matches, compared to overall match attendees.

In looking over the proposed idea, I note that the focus is heavily slanted towards the big bore "buff gun" calibers. My thought was that HERE in the CAS forum we tend to express most of our interest in the loading of revolver/carbine catridges and by extension... the loading of black powder in same.

BTW, if you have a copy of the August 2002 issue of The Cowboy Chronicle you will find an article on page 36 about my truely wierd and wonderful .45 Colt black powder load. That article was the catalyst that ended up with the new LEE, Pigeonroost Slim bullet mold, being created to make a bullet that carried enough lube to shoot extened sessions with the .45 in lever guns....without the fouling problems associated with long barrels and fast shooting!

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 31, 2002, 02:21:59 PM »

Cut's I think I see where we're talking apples and oranges. Just so we are playing on the same sheet of music:

"There is now a Poll on the Request for New Forums Forum regarding adding a new forum just to discuss the subject of reloading black powder cartridges. If any of you have an interest in establishing such a forum you should vote for it. If I see enough interest I'll set it up."

I believe that this is to be another forum to stand on it's own, not a subforum of the Cowboy Action Forum. There are several of us here that believe if a projectile comes out'a the end, it must'a been sent by a dose of Black Powder, and this was just a "Heads Up" to everyone intrested.

2 more cents

Butler Ford

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #13 on:** December 31, 2002, 03:22:18 PM »

Could be yer right, I ain't arguing that. But what I've gleaned from the posts about the poll:

"This particular subject matter is especially of interest to those that participate in the challenging Black Powder Cartridge Rifle (BPCR) Silhouette Matches and Long Range Matches out to 1000 yards and beyond with open sighted and telescope equipped rifles.

Existing forums ARE NOT dedicated to this specific subject matter and in the past (seemed to) have strayed far from initial intentions and also (seemed to) have driven knowledge away rather then creating an atmosphere of sharing."

"Me thinks there IS a definite need for a SEPARATE and distinct forum dedicated solely to the Loading and/or Reloading of Black Powder Rifle Cartridges with Black Powder. "

"If I understand correctly you are looking for a forum separate from the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Forum that is specific to RELOADING like my Handg Loading for Pistol and Rifles Forum that currently exists?"

...sorta looks like the intent is be slanted towards BPCR loading. Not that that is a bad thing at all! I intend to vote yes for it, but I'm going to add a post to the poll thread indicating that I'd like to see it open to all forms of BP loading in all cartridges.

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 31, 2002, 03:50:49 PM »

Cut's I read yer post, yep I agree with ya, but ya know if we stop by there on a regular basis an ask if ff is too coarse for a 32 mag, or is there an advantage to adding sperm oil over olive oil to your lube, they might eventually hafta loosen up a bit and share some of their knowledge. I figure black powder silhouette shooting with a '66 or '73 is just about as challanging and just one more way to burn some more charcoal and ain't that what it is really about?

Ya know, I really think we're in agreement on this, we're just.....what was it my old drill sargent said? Oh! We're not out of step. we're outta phase!!

Butler Ford

Graybeard · « **Reply #15 on:** December 31, 2002, 05:49:24 PM »

Quote from: Old Cane

Good point Cuts. Would this be a good time to ask if there will be a cowboy classifieds?

Again I have no big problem with a Classifieds just for you guys if you think you want to limit it to that. My current Classifeds gets about 2500-3000 visitors per week and stuff sells real fast if priced right. Some CAS stuff shows up from time to time.

If you think it will benefit you to limit it just to folks looking for CAS stuff and there will be enough activity I have no problem with that. I don't have a clue how many of you are here now but you are quite active posters. We may end up with a CAS Section like we have several other sections now if we keep going. What you guys do will determine it all.

I'll stick in a poll and you can decide.

GB

Graybeard · « **Reply #16 on:** December 31, 2002, 05:52:54 PM »

OK. I set up BOTH.

There is now a forum just for you CAS guys and another for the BPCR guys to discuss loading BP in their respective cartridges. Might be some cross over I don't know. Matters now to me as long as you guys are happy with it.

Dang I can see it now Marsh is gonna go crazy, well OK, crazier :-D he's gonna have so many places to talk about his Holy Black.

GB

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 01, 2003, 02:16:26 PM »

The answer to that question lies here: http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=84

Looking forward to learning more from all you old hands.