Savage 219?

[JWP58]

I've already asked the guys in the handi forum about this, but i thought it would be an awesome set up in the savage 219.
 
Could you rechamber a 30-30 Savage 219 to 30-40 krag? I've heard people say that the action isnt strong enough, but is there any actual numbers out there to prove it isnt?

[cwlongshot]

This cartridge predates the 30-30 for smokeless powder... designed in 1892... If loaded within its designed parameters its LESS than 40 cup...well within pressure limitations for this action.
 
CW

[JWP58]

Awesome.
 
I think i know what my next project is going to be........
 
Now to find one that isnt crazy exspensive and in decent shape.

[JWP58]

Does anyone know of where i could find one forsale?...That isnt 350-400?

[mannyrock]

JWP,
 
    I took a keen interest in these rifles about a month ago, but decided against getting one.
 
   These rifles in .30-30 are not rare at all.  Go to a few large gunshows and walk around.  I found 3, in VG to VG+ condition, for $200 to $275 .  No problem.  Two of them had a 12 gauge barrel to go along with them.
 
   It is the 219 in .22 Hornet that is rare and now becoming somewhat collectable.  These are going from $275 to $350.
 
  Before going forward, you may want to consider the main issue that exists with these rifles.  If you open the action, and then accidentally squeeze the trigger, the firing pin will be sheered off (broken off) when you close the action. Extremely common.
 
   Replacement firing pins can be found, but taking the action apart to install the pin can be like a Chinese puzzle.  Many experience gun tinkerers told me it took them upwards of two hours, and they had to get a spring compressor to do it.   Most gunsmiths refuse to do it for customers, because they would have to charge at least $100 for their time, which is half the cost of the rifle.   At any rate, the first thing you have to do when you buy one of these rifles is to buy a spare firing pin (or two).  You have to find them as used parts, at Numrich.
 
   Also, the original 219 had a trigger system that is totally different from the later 219B, C, D, E, and L.   On the original, the movement of the action lever (to unlock the action) actually cocked the hammer.  On all of the later models, the opening of the action and rocking foreward of the barrel caused a flat rod attached to the barrel lug to plunge into the receiver and cock the hammer.  Schemata of the two systems can easily be found online, so you may want to take a look at them.
 
   Although the conversion of one of these rifles to .30-40 sounds like an interesting project, I think that it will end up being one of those debacles that results in spending an extra $100 on a rifle that costs $225, only to have an odd rifle that is only worth maybe $150.   Also, the requirement of constantly watching out so as not to break the firing pin would take alot of fun out of the rifle, at least for me.
 
  Although these rifles have beautiful wood on them, and nice original case color, they were sold as very cheap rifles for folks who could not afford a bolt action.  They were the original Handi rifle.  You may want to take that into account as well.
 
  Hope this info helps.
 
Regards, Mannyrock
 
 

[JWP58]

Thank you Manny for the info. I think i would keep it 30-30 just due to ammo selection. But im also looking to a Baikal in 308win. And if i cant find either of those for cheap enough (what they are actually worth) I'll just save for a CZ Brno Effect....

[Flash]

JWP,
 
    I took a keen interest in these rifles about a month ago, but decided against getting one.
 
   These rifles in .30-30 are not rare at all.  Go to a few large gunshows and walk around.  I found 3, in VG to VG+ condition, for $200 to $275 .  No problem.  Two of them had a 12 gauge barrel to go along with them.
 
   It is the 219 in .22 Hornet that is rare and now becoming somewhat collectable.  These are going from $275 to $350.
 
  Before going forward, you may want to consider the main issue that exists with these rifles.  If you open the action, and then accidentally squeeze the trigger, the firing pin will be sheered off (broken off) when you close the action. Extremely common.
 
   Replacement firing pins can be found, but taking the action apart to install the pin can be like a Chinese puzzle.  Many experience gun tinkerers told me it took them upwards of two hours, and they had to get a spring compressor to do it.   Most gunsmiths refuse to do it for customers, because they would have to charge at least $100 for their time, which is half the cost of the rifle.   At any rate, the first thing you have to do when you buy one of these rifles is to buy a spare firing pin (or two).  You have to find them as used parts, at Numrich.
 
   Also, the original 219 had a trigger system that is totally different from the later 219B, C, D, E, and L.   On the original, the movement of the action lever (to unlock the action) actually cocked the hammer.  On all of the later models, the opening of the action and rocking foreward of the barrel caused a flat rod attached to the barrel lug to plunge into the receiver and cock the hammer.  Schemata of the two systems can easily be found online, so you may want to take a look at them.
 
   Although the conversion of one of these rifles to .30-40 sounds like an interesting project, I think that it will end up being one of those debacles that results in spending an extra $100 on a rifle that costs $225, only to have an odd rifle that is only worth maybe $150.   Also, the requirement of constantly watching out so as not to break the firing pin would take alot of fun out of the rifle, at least for me.
 
  Although these rifles have beautiful wood on them, and nice original case color, they were sold as very cheap rifles for folks who could not afford a bolt action.  They were the original Handi rifle.  You may want to take that into account as well.
 
  Hope this info helps.
 
Regards, Mannyrock

Actually, the 25-20 is harder to find than the Hornet. Only the older 219s had the case colors and walnut stocks, the newer guns, that had the side mounted opening lever had maple stocks and painted receivers.
I found a 30-30 cleaner-upper tonight for $100 with the side mounted opening lever............no, it's not for sale!!!

[Mike A.]

I don't think the 219s in .22 Hornet really qualify as rare.  They are hard to find because the people that have them tend not to sell them, so they don't get on the market very often.  They were once very popular and there were a lot of them made.  Many were somewhat screwed up by ill-mounted scopes before they began making them with grooved barrels for the .22 tipoff scopes, I think in the late 1950s (you won't find .30-30s with grooves because the mount wouldn't hold under recoil of the heavier caliber).  The sidelever ones are the last made.

.25-20 and .32-20 219s are much rarer than .22 Hornets, and there are all kinds of calibers out there from when the R&D department's spare parts from the Utica plant were sold off by Numrich's.  I saw a number of rimfires: .22 WRF, .22WRM, 5mm Rem, .310 shot, 9mm shot, etc. when in their shop, also .357 Mag, and .22 Rem Jet.  And those were just the leftovers.....

I had a friend in Moscow, ID who had rechambered a 219 .30-30 to .30-40 to clean up the gouges some clown had made in the neck of the chamber trying to remove a stuck case neck with a hardened screwdriver. 

It worked fine and served him as a deer and elk rifle for about a decade before his eyes got too bad to use open sights.  He killed at least one meat elk every year he had it and still had one shell left from the original box he had bought when he finished the rechamber.  Must not have taken many to sight it in! He used 180 gr. Core Lokt Remingtons.

Don't dry fire 219s and 220s; use an empty or a snap cap.  The firing pins are brittle and a pain to replace.  (Don't ask me how I know this.....).

[IOWA DON]

My dad bought a used one in .22 Hornet for me when I was in the 8th grade. It would shoot 1-inch groups at 100 yards with the factory ammo which according to Jack O'Conner shot about 2,400 fps compared to the advertised velocity of 2,700 fps. When handloading for it I could not get good accuracy until I loaded down to 2,400 fps. It was drilled for a side mount and the slightest bump would result in it not staying sighted in. I think there was something wrong with the steel the barrel was made of because it was slightly pitted when bought and the pits just kept getting bigger even though i cleaned the barrel. I dry-fired it as I read that was a good way to practice and the end of the firing pin broke off and hit the window I was aiming out of. We found a new firing pin and never did that again. I think I some loading data for a .219 Zipper where the gun used was a 219 Savage. Could that have been a factory chambering?

[Mike A.]

I suspect that a .219 Zipper in a 219 Savage would have been a re-chambered .22 Hornet.  But, as the Savage collectors say, with Savage you NEVER say "never"!

[ohiobenito]

would a handi rifle in 7.62*39 be a candidate for rechamber?

[tacklebury]

7.62 x 39 is a rimless cartridge.  30-40 krag is a rimmed cartridge, so it'd require major modification to the extraction mechanism also, probably not the best candidate. 

[44 Man]

Sorry, I just found this post.  I think you would be wiser to get a Handi in 30-30 for your project.  Those have a successful track record for doing what you wish to do and have the strength for it.  I have a friend that has a 219 in 30-30AI that we were loading for and for one, I would not even do the AI on one.  Every time we bumped the pressure even a little above 30-30 pressure, the action  would lock up.  So the AI was not successful on this action.  A Handi you can take up to 30-06 pressures with no quams or problems.  That's my experience.  44 Man

[popplecop]

Have both, a 30-30 restocked with a cherry stock and forend, Wms. Guide Receiver Sight Fiber optic front, the 2nd was a .22 Hornet, but rechambered to K Hornet.  Both great little SS. The K Hornet is scoped with an old Weaver K 6 and very accurate.  The 30-30 has accounted for a number of deer, great light weight woods rifle.  Some of my friends have had their 30-30s recambered to the Ackley Improved.  I've found I like my the way it is and load 130 gr. spire  points and works well.