Go-To Bullets Discontinued - Need A New Load

[firstshot]

Hornady has discontinued the 7mm-154 RN and Speer is discontinuing their entire Hot-Core line.  Both of these were my Go-To bullets for my 7mm-08.  I used the 154 RN for <150 Yd shots and the 145 Hot-Cores for longer ranges.
 
I am working up loads for my new 7mm-08 Browning BAR ShortTrac and want to move to a bullet that can serve both purposes and hopefully will not be discontinued.
 
Considerations:

• I don’t think you need a premium bullet to kill deer and hogs in Texas so would like to stick with cup&core if possible
  
• I’m mostly color blind so I need either DRT or a “you can’t help but see it” blood trail from the same bullet.
• We mostly hunt blinds on our lease, so most shots are 150 yds or less; however, I do like to spot and stalk sometimes where shots could be anywhere out to 350 Yds.  I don’t see myself taking shots longer than that.
• I’m a firm believer in Shot Placement so accuracy is number 1 on the list. I am accustomed to and expect sub moa accuracy.
• I take neck shots whenever possible, but want enough penetration for angled shots if that’s all I can get.  I don’t take Texas heart shots!:-)
• If I am ever lucky enough to come across a real trophy, I would like to feel confident taking a high shoulder shot that would put em down right there.

What I've got on-hand to work with:

• Sierra 120 Pro Hunter SP
• Hornady 139 Interlock Flat Base SP
• Hornady 139 Interlock BTSP
• Nosler 140G Ballistic tip
• Nosler 140 Accubond

Currently Being Considered

• Sierra 140gr Prohunter
• Sierra 140gr GameKing
• Sierra 150gr GameKing
• Nosler 120gr Ballistic Tip

I would appreciate any comments, bullet & load recommendations, and on-game performance results you are willing to share (Not restricted to bullets listed above).
 
Thanks
firstshot

[Larry L]

My brother lives in Webb County and is a trapper by trade. He hunts with a 7-08 as well as others. His is a stainless Remington. He shoots either the Speer 115 Varmint bullet or the 120 Sierra Pro Hunter. It's decked hogs over 500 lbs at yardages you're talking about as max for you. He loads his with a max load of IMR4064 but he's also had RE15 in it and got great accuracy from it too. If you're hunting South Texas, I wouldn't worry about the Speer bullet being a varmint bullet. At long yardages it performs more like a game bullet. A lot of the guys are using the 300 mags in South Texas and the bullets are the Speer 125gr TNT as it performs excellent at 500-800+ yds on deer where a game bullet usually won't expand much. If you're hunting hill country where most shots are short, it's probably not a good choice.

[firstshot]

Hey Larry ..... Yes, I'm hunting the hill country just outside of Llano and like I said most of our shots are 150 Yds or less with a max of 300-350yds.
 
firstshot

[Buckskin]

So you said this is a new BAR, do you have any loads of your Go-To's through it?  I am a AB fan, which I see you have the 140's listed. I would definitely give them a try. I am using a pretty hot load with Varget to mag length in my 7-08 and am reasonably pleased with it. It is just under MOA. I have tried quite a few other powders with the 140 ABs and the Varget seems to be the best powder for them in my gun.  I am also playing with the 160s, but really don't have enough data to recommend anything here yet other than it seems promising.  Nosler is coming out soon with Accubond 150's for the 7mm and I will definitely give them a try and hopefully get my licorice whip of a barrel on my Mountain 7-08 a good bit under MOA one way or another...  I should just be happy with it for what it is, but I like my bolt guns to be a what they should be... Funny thing is it shoots well under MOA at 500 yards, the gun has me pulling my hair out to tell the truth...

[Larry L]

Firstshot, unless you have the want of a heavier bullet, the 120 Sierra Pro is all the bullet you need. The heavier bullets aren't going to buy you anything on the small hill country deer. Hogs up there are generally 250lbs or less unlike the South Texas hog which can get huge quick. I did have family up there but age got to them and the relatives sold out. Spent a lot of time in the area when I was much younger. Still beautiful country. Have you been up there for the Blue Bonnets or made the Willow City Loop?

[firstshot]

Hey Buckskin... I also have a Rem Mtn LSS and the best I could get the 140 AB's to shoot in it was about 1 1/4" CTC.  Tried a bunch of different powders.  (TIP: for best groups you have to let that skinney little barrel cool between shots)
 
The Hdy 154 RN has been the absolute most accurate bullet in two different 7mm-08's so far using 47.5 gr H414.  A Rem Mtn LSS and a Rem 7600. The Mtn LSS averaged .67" CTC @100.  The 7600 averaged about .75".  Occasionally either one would cut a 1/2" or better group.
 
I was out of H414 so I loaded up some 154's for the BAR using 45.0 gr IRM4350.  They shoot OK right at MOA.  I just loaded some up with H414 but haven't got to go out and shoot them yet.  Can't wait to see how they do.
 
I just stocked up on the 154's so I've got enough now to last me a while, but I still want to work up some kind of "longer" distance load.  In the past the 145 gr Hot-Cor's were the answer, but they are being discontinued too.
 
firstshot

[firstshot]

Larry, I just stocked up a bit on my 154 RN so I've got my heavy bullet.  I've been seriously considering trying out a 120 gr.  I've heard a lot about the 120 BT's.  Most of the guys at our camp shoot 243's and I'm constently being teased about being "over gunned".  Maby if I drop down to a 120 gr they will cut me some slack :-)
 
I've been here in Georgetown for 6 years now, so yes have seen plenty of bluebonnets.  Never heard of the Willow City Loop though.  What is that?

[Larry L]

Willow City Loop is about 1/3 of the way between Fredricksburg and Llano on Hwy 16. You'll turn east or RH coming from Fredricksburg towards Willow City. It's just a few houses there now but you can't miss it considering the road takes a 90 degree turn there. You'll be driving thru ranches on county road. Some of it will make you think you left Texas as it can get into being spectacular. In some of the locations you can see nothing but blue fields as far as you can see- extremely beautiful. On weekends the roads are crowded and tons of folks taking pics. You can Google Willow City and they have a website that will tell you when the flowers are in bloom. If you've never been to the Nimitz Museum in Fredricksburg, it's well worth the time especially if you like WWII stuff- they have tons of it including a PT boat, half tracks, tanks, airplanes, etc. Anyway, Willow City Loop is a good attraction in that part of Texas. Here's a semi-bad pic from this last year. The camera didn't pull the blue bonnets out though but you get the idea of what the roads are like:

[firstshot]

Larry... definitely sounds like a road trip is in order this spring. Looks beautiful!!!  I love WWII stuff so we'll make a point of visiting the misuem as well. Thanks for sharing.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive killed alot of deer with that 145 speer you like and its allways got the job done. As have the 150 and 140 bt nos, 140 and 150 sierra prohunter. Ive shot deer anywhere from 50 yards to near 500 with them out of 7mags and 280s and they allways done what theres suppose to. Put meat on the table.

[Buckskin]

Yeah, I usually take 3 rifles down when shooting, so there is plenty of time between shots. I had no luck with H414 and I have no idea why. I really put a lot of time into that powder and it was never consistant for me. IMR4350 gave me much better results, than even the Varget, but I was running them up to 47.5gr and they were really compressed and had a hard time getting them to mag length.
 
I think I am done playing with this rifle until the 150AB's come out, although I might consider giving the smaller bullets a shot as people are suggesting. But I think I just have to accept the fact that this gun is a barely MOA gun...

[firstshot]

buckskin - I just looked up my 140 Accubond load for my 7mm-08 Mtn LSS where I worked up the load in .5 grain increments.
I don't have the velocities as I didn't have a chronograph at the time, but I was using Varget with an OGIV of 2.257.  The charges and resulting groups at 100 Yds were as follows:
40.0 Gr - 0.596" CTC
40.5 Gr - 0.370" CTC
41.0 Gr - 0.610" CTC
41.5 Gr - 0.880" CTC
42.0 Gr - 0.495" CTC
 
Average for Varget was 0.590" CTC.  I got similar results with RL15 with best group of 0.466" CTC just under max load at 41.5 Gr.
 
I noticed in your first post that you were loading "to mag length".  Are you using a Bullet Comparator (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/231904/hornady-lock-n-load-bullet-comparator-basic-set-with-6-inserts) to determine your optimum seating depth?  i.e. generally about 0.010" of the lands.  I found the Mtn LSS to be very sensitive to seating debth with seating closest to the lands to give best results.

[Buckskin]

I'd be thrilled if I could get mine to shoot like that... I do use the same Hornady comparator, but haven't played around with this gun over mag max, because it was purchased for my son to use next season as his deer rifle. Ok, that's not the only reason I bought it, but my wife fell for it...  My max mag length is quite a way off of the lands, so maybe I should run them out to .010" off and see how it shoots. I could always put a Wyatt mag box in if that is the sweet spot...

[firstshot]

Buckskin.. you said you had a Mountian rifle.  Is it the Mountain LSS?
 
The reason I ask is that when I was loading the 140 Accubond for my Mountian LSS, I set it so that it was 0.010 off the lands but it did not take up all the room in the mag.  It was close, but I still had a little bit of room between the bullet tip and the front face of the mag.  I never had to change the mag at all.
 
If you've got the same model rifle, I can't imagine the 140AB being loaded to mag length and still not reaching the lands.  In fact I'm wondering how it's NOT touching the lands.
 
I think I would start from scratch with your son's rifle determining the lentgh at which the 140AB OGIV touches the lands and then backing off 0.010.
 
PS:  I gave my Mountian LSS to my son, but it has now been converted to a .243.  (I kept the 7mm-08 barrel) 

[cwlongshot]

Well that stinks dont it!!!

I just looked and the .323 170 RN is gone too!!!  These are TWO of my favorites GONE!!!

CW

[Buckskin]

Yes it's the LSS, but I am no where near the lands at mag length, which is 2.840".

[firstshot]

cwlongshot
 
Midshouth Shooters has both the 7MM 154RN and the .323 170 RN.
 
Here is a link to the .323 170 RN:  http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000033235
 
The 154 RN was only $9:99 a box of 100.  I bought 400 of them.
 
firstshot

[firstshot]

Yes it's the LSS, but I am no where near the lands at mag length, which is 2.840".

Wow!  That rifle must have a really deep throat.
 
firstshot

[cwlongshot]

cwlongshot
 
Midshouth Shooters has both the 7MM 154RN and the .323 170 RN.
 
Here is a link to the .323 170 RN:  http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000033235
 
The 154 RN was only $9:99 a box of 100.  I bought 400 of them.
 
firstshot

Back order only at this time... 


BUT your 145G is IN STOCK!!  http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000211629

CW

[Buckskin]

Yes it's the LSS, but I am no where near the lands at mag length, which is 2.840".

Wow!  That rifle must have a really deep throat.
 
firstshot

I guess so.... 2.910 COAL is touching the lands with 140gr ABs.  At the ogive touching the lands measures 2.325" and the max mag length is 2.262".  I figured this was a normal throat length. I would be kind of shocked if you could get to the lands in a factory rifle within mag length, all of mine are quite a stretch unless a extended mag box was installed.

[firstshot]

Buckskin
 
I don't have any more 140 Accubonds or I would check my Mtn LSS again, but I checked my load notes and with three diffetent lots I got the following OGIVE 0.010 off the lands:
2.255, 2.250, and 2.255.
 
Does your LSS have a detachable magazine?  My LSS is a top loader.
 
firstshot
 

[firstshot]

cwlongshot
 
Midshouth Shooters has both the 7MM 154RN and the .323 170 RN.
 
Here is a link to the .323 170 RN:  http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000033235
 
The 154 RN was only $9:99 a box of 100.  I bought 400 of them.
 
firstshot

Back order only at this time... 


BUT your 145G is IN STOCK!!  http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000211629

CW

Well, they do sill have the 170 .323 RN abailable on the Hornady web site: http://www.hornady.com/store/8mm-.323-170-gr-RN/    They are kind of pricy though :-(
 
Are you and I the last two guys on the face of the earth that are still shooting Round Nose bullets?

[Buckskin]

Yep, top loader. I don't know why my throat was cut so long or yours so short. But I would rather have is short...

[firstshot]

Yes... that is totally wierd!  Glad I have the short one too!