.223 rem for whitetail deer?

[SHOOTALL]

tmar,

I am sick of topics like this where tiny bullets are promoted as "all you need" or some other baloney to torture a deer to death.

The small bullets are not legal in some places that know better and for sure

not sporting.

"Use enough gun."

What's more "sporting" -shooting a broadside deer under 150 pounds at a distance under 150 yards in the lungs with a .223 Remington tipped with bullets intended for deer-sized game, or shooting a broadside deer weighing 180 pounds at a distance of 275 yards in the lungs twice with a .300 Weatherby tipped with 190 grain Sierra MatchKings, then a third time with a .300 Weatherby tipped with a 180 grain Nosler Partition?
Having been there and done that, I know which of the two scenarios fits with "torture a deer to death" and which does not.  And I don't really need the "sportsmanship police" to point it out to me.
JP

In reality sporting is getting close enough to see the deer blink with out optics    That's hunting after which you can elect to shoot a short shot or walk away. Shooting at long range is less hunting and more sniping IMHO. I have done both and like hunting over sniping myself. No cut to the long range shooters but sporting is where you put the critter on more even footing where it can use it's senses to avoid you . When sniping at long range though effective is not allowing the critter to use it's natural ablity to avoid harm. And yes long range shooting involves a lot of skill and better equipment no doubt and to be very honest as the season wears on myself and others who enjoy a close hunt are more likely to take longer shots. So I in no way am cutting down anyone or pratice just pointing out that sporting really does not apply to certian aspects of  hunting . Placing of a bullet is one of them . A bullet that would be sporting by definition would be less lethal as it would give the critter a chance of escape . The better term would be humane    and put the critter down quicker and with less pain.

[FPH]

I agree, my last four deer have been head shots at 75 yds or less with my .308.  However, I see people who bang away at 500 yds.  I also hunt out west were long shots are becoming the norm.

[nomosendero]

I keep forgetting that the deer you guys down South are shooting are about the same size as our coyotes, and I do use a 223 on coyote most of the time. I rember the first deer I saw killed in VA., a swamp deer, and the guy was so proud of his big buck, and I`m thinking that`s about the size of our young of the year come Jan.

thats awesome.  I'm from NC, and my brother and I held my first deer up by its back legs while my grandfather skinned and gutted it.  It was a bit smaller than average though.  In NC .22 caliber centerfires are illegal for deer, but I agree with all who say that a well placed bullet is better than a bigger bullet.

True in some areas, not in others. Here in AR we have River Bottom Deer & Deer on Crowley's Ridge that look like Northern Bucks.

[nomosendero]

I really don't like this "sporting" versus shooting crap. To some it would mean they must use a stickbow with wood arrows. But others would say too many Deer are wounded using such a weapon. Some Compound hunters look down at crossbow hunters, Traditional vs In-Line scoped, 30-30 shooters vs long range hunters, yada yada.

I see a guy getting bashed because he made a mistake and grabbed the wrong ammo & is big enough to admit it & it is clear to me he has more experience than some here trying to make issues.

Maybe I should shut this one down. I don't know why this is such a hard topic for some. As I have said before, I have taken a few Whitetails with a 223 & I personally know of over 250 Deer killed with the round, but at the same time I don't consider it to be a "Deer Round" simply because you need to restrict the range & not do some of the angle shots that are needed some times to take a Trophy animal we may see in particular. This is why you are not likely to see me with a 223 in my hands during Deer season. But, there is not a Whitetail or Mule Deer walking that can stand one shot in the Lungs or heart at 100 yds. from a properly constructed .224 bullet. If someone can explain how a Deer can withstand such a bullet placement with those 2 stated conditions, then do it.

[cjclemens]

I'd second that motion to shut this one down.  It seems like a source of conflict.  I dont really consider .223 a deer round, myself, but I dont have such strong feelings about it.  I think each individual hunter needs to understand the strengths and limitation of the cartridge, the rifle, and (most importantly) themselves.

The other thing that never comes up is that there is more to making a humane kill than just bullet diameter.  Shot placement, bullet construction, and animal size are all just as important.  Heck, if you're a lousy shot you could probably wound a deer with a .50 BMG.

I say each hunter should know what they can or cant do with their rifle.  If you've been killin deer with a .223 by the dozens, and never wound one - I say keep it up.  Obviously you're doing something right.  If you dont feel comfortable using a .223, by all means - use something bigger.

I'd bet almost every hunter has wounded or lost an animal.  If you're an intelligent rational human being, you probably felt terrible about it, and vowed never to do it again...and you probably know darn well what you did wrong.  I know a couple bow hunters who have wounded and lost more deer than I can count.  They're the kind of idiots that give us all a bad name.  Does that mean bows are inhumane? Not at all.  It means they need to reassess their abilities and make the necessary adjustments.

There's no reason this topic should lead to so much endless butthurt.  Its silly, and now that I've been thinking about it, I believe my stance on this subject can be summed up in one sentence: If you have to ask, the answer is probably no.