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Author Topic: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker  (Read 2859 times)

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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« on: February 04, 2014, 08:16:07 AM »
I recently won a TC muzzle loader from a company in Illinois.  When I requested that they ship the item to my house, they told me that I had to have it shipped to an FFL dealer.  I told them it was not required by my state, nor the Federal government.  They told me that Illinois required it.

Seems like Illinois has now decided that muzzle loaders are a NICS check item, (Form 4473 required item) in that state.  So if you purchase want to purchase a muzzle loader from a store/company in Illinois, be prepared to pay an FFL transfer fee, in addition to the shipping fee, and the price of the gun. 
Will the madness never end?  Bottom line, if you use Gun Broker, to purchase a H&R/NEF Sidekick, make sure that the company is not located in Illinois, or you will have to pay the additional FFL transfer fee.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2014, 08:43:14 AM »
Nothing new there as far as Ilinois, Cabelas has had that policy for several states for years.

Tim


http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/includes/restriction_popup.jsp?productId=1608685

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Offline Busta

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2014, 12:02:35 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on February 04, 2014, 08:43:14 AM
Nothing new there as far as Ilinois, Cabelas has had that policy for several states for years.

Tim


http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/includes/restriction_popup.jsp?productId=1608685

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Quick,
As far as Michigan goes, you do not need to go through a FFL. No 4473 or anything like that. The ONLY reason the MI residents need to go through the Gun Department at Cabelas is to obtain the "Verification Of Information" Form.
The VOI Form is for verification of information that your are who you say you are, not a certain type of felon, and must be signed by a Notary Public. This form can then either be mailed or faxed back to Cabelas Gun Department. They keep this form on file, and you can then order black powder rifles, black powder pistols, and paintball guns whenever you want. They will ship them to your door. This is a one time requirement.
This is what it says.
"I AM NOT UNDER INDICTMENT FOR, NOR HAVE I BEEN CONVICTED OF A FELONY PUNISHABLE BY IMPRISONMENT FOR FOUR (4) YEARS OR MORE; OR AS PROVIDED BY LAW, I HAVE MET THE CONDITIONS AFTER CONVICTION WITH MY RIGHTS BEING RESTORED."
I'm guessing Cabelas got stung by Michigan for either shipping to minors, certain types of felons, or to cities/townships where restricted??? Just a guess that they are covering all the bases to comply with certain areas of the state with this blanket form?
Just wanted to make it clear, their (Cabelas') requirement.
I'm sure they lose a lot of sales to those states in the yellow banner, because people don't call to inquire? Most people assume that they cannot send muzzleloaders, which is not true at least in Michigans case. YMMV on the other states listed? A call to their Gun Department would clear things up for other states listed.
 
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Offline garbhead

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2014, 12:24:30 PM »
"Policy" dictates a lot more than it should in some cases. I bought some 50c muzzleloader sabots from Numrich on ebay. After I pd, they wanted to know what FFL dealer I wanted them to send them to.  I said they're just bullet tips.  They said it was their "policy" to only ship ammo to an FFL. I said that policy is fine with me. I told them if it was "ammo" then they wouldn't be allowed to sell them on ebay But tried to convince them that this was not ammo....guess what? I had to have them sent to my FFL.  He also thought it was ridiculous....so much he didn't even charge me anything.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2014, 12:46:11 PM »
Busta, I made no reference to MI, but WA is one of the states listed in their yellow warning box, for us any muzzleloader shipped from a dealer must be shipped to an FFL, but for private transactions with an individual, muzzleloaders can be shipped here to non-licensees with no problem, as indicated by Cabelas note state laws are the reason for the restrictions.

Tim
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Offline Bugflipper

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2014, 02:13:22 PM »
On gunbroker towards the top where they have the shipping price there is a line that says FFL it will have a yes if shipping to ffl is required and No if not. If it says yes I just quit looking at it for a muzzle loader.
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2014, 02:58:30 PM »
Even in my liberal state of Massachusetts you can walk in any store that has a ML for sale and buy it without a license or a NICS check !!! (or buy it from a private party with no paperwork or checks).
This is getting crazier and crazier every time you turn around!!!....<><....:)
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Offline bubba

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2014, 03:41:23 PM »
I just bought one there too a tc.  If you look close it says all firearms have ot be sent to an ffl.  I know it is not a firearm,but i their policy it is.  No biggie I had it sent to the shop I use all the time.  When it gets here, all I have ot do is go pick it up. 
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Offline Busta

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2014, 05:33:38 PM »
Tim,
Yeah I know, but your first post about other states, along with the yellow Cabelas banner might have been misunderstood by some?

We can go into any store, including Cabelas in Dundee and buy any muzzleloader ( rifle/pistol) without any check or paperwork. Just get your receipt, and you are on your way. We can also buy any muzzleloader or center fire long gun from an individual with a handshake (optional).
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2014, 05:40:27 PM »
This isn't about in-person purchases, it's about online purchases, as in mail-order when the dealer ships to the customer. IIRC Andy can't even buy ammo online to be shipped to MA.  :(

Tim
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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2014, 09:32:13 AM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on February 04, 2014, 05:40:27 PM
This isn't about in-person purchases, it's about online purchases, as in mail-order when the dealer ships to the customer. IIRC Andy can't even buy ammo online to be shipped to MA.  :(

Tim
We will have the same problem soon (possibly this April 2014), because of our King Andy Cuomo.  It was suppose to start in January, but the state wanted the Feds to do the checks for them, and the Feds told him, you passed the law, you pay for the checks.  He passed the law, and he doesn't have the money to enforce it.  Don't know when/if it ever goes into effect.

The reason, I'm highly annoyed about the Gun Broker purchase is that a state is trying to make me comply with their laws, and I don't live in their jurisdiction.  State law, can't or shouldn't supersede inter-state commerce, which is supposed to be controlled by the Feds.
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My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2014, 09:39:33 AM »
State laws can be more restrictive than federal laws, dealers are just setting policy so they protect their business from running afoul of the more restrictive state laws which I'm sure vary a lot, rather than try to keep up on them state by state, they just make it a blanket policy to protect themselves.

Tim
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Offline ocxgeno

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2014, 06:41:08 AM »
Try living in this POS state.... its horrible for gun owners. We JUST got conceal carry last month...

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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2014, 04:46:20 PM »
A follow up to above; it seems that this specific gun store (Hunting Stuff in Salem, Ilinois) is demanding that BP rifles be sent to FFL dealers only.  I found quite a few Illinois sellers on Gun Broker, that say, requiring BP rifles be sent to FFLs isn't a state requirement.  Apparently Hunting Stuff personnel don't know what the law is pertaining to BP rifles.

I sent a request for clarification about this to the Illinois State Police.  According to what i saw on their website, BP rifles are not considered firearms.  Currently waiting for a reply.
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"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline bubba

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2014, 02:25:53 AM »
Truthfully what the law is does not matter.  Store policy matters to the store.  it is their decision how they ship the gun. They want to be sure they are complying even if it means they are doing more than they need to.  And as far as April 2014.  They are now stating they have nothing in place.  It is politically being held off until after the elections I guarantee it.  When people have to pay a 10 or 20 dollar background check fee fee to get a box of ammo, they would get up in arms (pun intended)  They do not want to make all the now complacent gun owners mad before he tries to get re elected.  However back to the original point,  the ammo law has been held off.  but, try to get some ammo sent to NY at this time.  I wish you luck.  MSP RET here in Ny you can walk into a store and purchase a ml face to face with no paperwork as long as it can not accept a centerfire barrel  IE encore or huntsman.  I can also do so face to face.  This was a state to state transaction by a dealer.  I can not blame them for being cautious.
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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2014, 06:56:21 AM »
Quote from: bubba on February 07, 2014, 02:25:53 AM
Truthfully what the law is does not matter.  Store policy matters to the store.  it is their decision how they ship the gun. They want to be sure they are complying even if it means they are doing more than they need to.  And as far as April 2014.  They are now stating they have nothing in place.  It is politically being held off until after the elections I guarantee it.  When people have to pay a 10 or 20 dollar background check fee fee to get a box of ammo, they would get up in arms (pun intended)  They do not want to make all the now complacent gun owners mad before he tries to get re elected.  However back to the original point,  the ammo law has been held off.  but, try to get some ammo sent to NY at this time.  I wish you luck.  MSP RET here in Ny you can walk into a store and purchase a ml face to face with no paperwork as long as it can not accept a centerfire barrel  IE encore or huntsman.  I can also do so face to face. This was a state to state transaction by a dealer.  I can not blame them for being cautious.
Guess again, if it's an firearm, that has been also changed, you can't sell to another person FTF unless it's your immediate family.  You have to go to an FFL to get a background check done, and you get to pay the fee for the charge.  It's will also be illegal to buy ammo from another individual after the ammo restrictions go into effect.

They can be cautious all they want, I won't be doing business with them again.  Hopefully, this will inform other BP shooters, that if they want to avoid an additional cost, they would do well to avoid this store.
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"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline bubba

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2014, 08:58:04 AM »
That actually started April of 2013.  The ammo was supposed to be January 15th this year.  You better get caught up.  And like I said if your ffl is charging you to have it shipped to their address and having to do no paperwork, find another ffl.  They are the ones ripping you off.  And since huntsman are firearms, I am not sure why it is on this forum anyway. 
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”A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.”

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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2014, 04:38:25 PM »
Quote from: bubba on February 07, 2014, 08:58:04 AM
That actually ....

 And since huntsman are firearms, I am not sure why it is on this forum anyway. 
Because their muzzleloaders? ;D   Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: A warning about purchasing a muzzle loader on Gun Broker
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2019, 04:48:39 AM »
Let's bring this one back up and see if folks might want to talk more about it.
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