RWS's "C" Mount Question.

[DeeGee]

Have a neat RWS 48 which has a Whizz Bang scope aboard.  I'm in the process of changing to a Leupold and I have no instructions on the C Mount (one piece).   Is this mount adjustable for windage before you puttz with the scope knobs?  I've heard some say to just throw the mount in the ditch but I really have no complaints on the mount.  Help or opinions sure would be appreciated.
DG

[casper_zip]

Good Morning: :grin:

I have two C-Mounts and they are one piece mounts. Yes, they can be "zeroed" in elevation and windage using the mount screws only. On both of mine, I zeroed my scopes in without moving the cross hairs.

Now, this takes some time, so don't get into a hurry. You are correct, they don't send any instructions. I had to learn the usual way, HARD WAY. But, like I said, take your time. Look it over good, really good. It has many adjustments. You can set the elevation on the scope purely by using the mount, and also get your windage zeroed in by using the mount.

Test fire it after you make adjustments. My first one, took about half a morning, I guess. I have both my air rifles shooting very, very tight groups now. So, hang in there, and you can do it.

Shoot good and often,

Casper_Zip  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:

[dave]

DeeGee, I think you will find that those C-mounts aren't going to work well on the 48. They are kind of fragile, and the heavy recoil of the 48/52/54 series will loosen up all those little fiddly adjustment screws pretty quick. As a result, you'll end up with the adjustments going south in no time. For a heavy recoil gun like this, you'll need to get a better designed mount. Beeman has some good ones, so does BKL.

[Carl l.]

I use the RWS adjustable scope mounts on my air rifle and like them. I think they are the best, never had any trouble with them. They work for me but you make up your own mind what will work for you. I never tell another man what to buy. I hope you have the fun that I have had with the air rifle. Carl L.

[casper_zip]

Hey there again: :grin:
 
I forgot to tell you, when you do your scope sighted in with the RWS "C" Mount, use the "removable" blue type locktite on the screws. Let them set overnight. I shoot my guns plenty. One is a M-34 RWS in 177 caliber, with a Burris Scope, and the other one is the M-350 22 caliber magnum type. It displays the same power as a 22 rimfire short for sure. I have killed big fox squirrels in tall pecan trees and a big possum. All were one shot kills. This gun is a powerful springer. I am very happy with my setups. Of course, like opinions, everyone has them.

Well, better go. Keep us posted.

Casper_Zip  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:

[big6x6]

C-Mounts...  Not really the best choice for anything.  I've had a couple myself and they are easily broken.  They are almost guaranteed to leave a ring on your scope, to the metal.  I'd rather have B-Square 17101, but that's not saying much.

I realize the Diana 48/52/54 do require a goodly amount of droop compensation when mounting a scope.  CURRENTLY the best ADJUSTABLE mount is the Beeman 5039.  It WILL work but the BEST choice for one of these Dianas' is the Beeman 5032.  It's a non-adjustable one-piece mount with droop compensation built in.  Just make the stop-pin a little shorter for the Diana dovetail buy tapping with a hammer and screw on.  You'll have no problems with that one.

[DeeGee]

Really appreciate the great comments and super suggestions.  I'll be mounting a $300 Leupold and sure don't want to put the thing in jeopardy.
I'd sure hate to mark or groove this new scope.  Will surely give all comments a very thorough evaluation.  Might take me a week to make a move either way.  Thanks again for taking your time to answer.
DG

[His lordship.]

Big6X6,

You had some scary info on my RWS 52 with the C-mount.  I have been previously happy with the open sites on my RWS 52 and decided about 2 years ago to put on a scope to help me see the house sparrows in the thick foliage near my house so that I don't hit legitimate song birds by accident, and also to take out the crows at 100 yards.  I had read that the German pellet rifles were designed to be used with open sites, and they mentioned the "Droop" factor you had brought up.

As this rifle is now only used for pest control, of .22 caliber, it has a BSA,  4 power scope with an adjustable focus feature on the bell, a C-mount and select pellets that shoot well in the gun.  Lately, I have been missing the crows big time, both at 50 and around 100 yards respectably!  :eek:  I keep bench checking the rifle at 20 feet and it shoots great, but man, I keep missing the crows, it seems that I am coming close, but still no hits, even with a bench rest, or off hand.  The mounting screws are rock solid tight.  I am a long term member at a gun club and my shooting is above average with my other rifles in skill, so I don't think it is me.  Because I shoot from a height, there is no real trajectory drop problems to deal with, if it was from a level plain from point A to point B, then yes these pellet rifles really have parameter drop.

I had no idea that the C-mounts were garbage, it was not cheap, and yes, it does gouge the scope body, as I am now on my second scope with this rifle I saw what it did to my Simmons, as it was later placed on my 30-06.  Do you guys have any suggestions?  Is my problem the "droop" issue?  Should I go back to the open sights for the outer range shots? :?

Thanks.

[dave]

A few suggestions:
first, that BSA scope isn't rated to stand up to the pounding that a model 52 dishes out. It may be somewhat damaged internally, and may not be holding its zero. You need to test it at longer range, certainly more than 20 feet, to check it properly.
Shooting from above requires some practice also. When shooting from above or below, the POI will be somewhat higher than if the shot was horizontal(you need to aim a bit lower).
Shooting a spring rifle well takes lots of practice, and is different from shooting a powder-burner, so the techniques for one usually don't apply to the other.
The 52 is not a break-barrel gun, so theres no droop to contend with. There is however pellet drop. Using a scope mount that is adjustable for elevation and windage will allow you to sight the scope in using the mounts adjustments, with the scope set to optical center. This way, the scope adjustments will  have plenty of room for fine tuning with out maxing them out. The alignment of the scope axis will also be closer to the bore axis, allowing more accurate elevation correction without diagonal stringing.

[big6x6]

"Lately, I have been missing the crows big time, both at 50 and around 100 yards respectably! "

Well, 100yds is a LONG, LONG shot for an airgun!  Even 50yds is a tough shot.  Sight in the 52 at 35 YARDS.  I've killed crows out to 50 yards but it does take a lot of practice.  Twenty feet isn't far enough to know exactly where your rifle is hitting.  Also, make sure the scope is functioning properly.  The 48/52/54 series of air rifles isn't known to be that "scope friendly."

"Is my problem the "droop" issue?"

No.  The "droop issue" is exactly as you first explained.  MOST German airguns ARE designed to be shot with open sights, barrels not parallel to the receiver but in a downward "drooped" position.  The "droop issue" is only an issue if you don't have enough "up" elevation adjustment in your scope to zero your rifle.  

"The 52 is not a break-barrel gun, so theres no droop to contend with."

That is incorrect.  ALTHOUGH an RWS 48/52/54 air rifle is a fixed barrel gun, this series of Diana air rifles is one of the predominant models that exhibit this characteristic.  Fixed/break barrel has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[doc_kreipke]

Fixed/break barrel has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Whoa! Yer strainin' my rusty concepts from high school physics & geometry. I would think that break barrel rifles are the only ones capable of having a barrel/receiver angulation. If a slight downward angle of the barrel with respect to the receiver doesn't cause "droop," what does?

[big6x6]

"I would think that break barrel rifles are the only ones capable of having a barrel/receiver angulation."

Again.. It has NOTHING to do with an action being a "break-barrel."  An Air Arms Pro Elite, a break-barrel has no "droop" because, no iron sights.  Neither does a Beeman R-11.  RWS 48/52/54 series have SIGNIFICANT "barrel-droop" with a non-moving barrel!  It's ALL about the manufacturer using a SLIGHT downward angle of the barrel compared to the receiver in order that open sights may be utilized/sighted in and the VAST array of pellet weights shooters have available.  "Barrel droop" is incooperated into most ALL spring-powered air rifles that use open sights for this reason; be it a "break-barrel," "side-cocker," or "under-lever."  This is ONLY an issue if one intends on mounting a scope on their air rifle.  On some, but not all, air rifles you will run out of UP adjustment on the w/e on the scope before "zero" is obtained.

[His lordship.]

Thanks for the input from you guys.  I removed my scope and mount last night, and sighted in the dovetail factory sights.  The fact that the cheap BSA ($60.00) scope might have been to blame is a possibility, as I did hit a crow last Fall at around 100 yards offhand, and now cannot hit anything does seem to point to the optics.  Also, the point of aim would change when the focus adjuster on the bell was turned.  Several of the catalog companies have listed their BSA line as "discontinued and no longer will be restocked", and it is a hated brand with the Greybeard topics sight on optics.

I had a Chinese made sidepump pellet rifle in the early 1990's that had noticable barrel droop, I thought at the time that it was typical Chinese slop in workmanship, little did I know that this was intentional as the gun shot accurately.  My RWS 52 has a short barrel so I could not tell with a T-square if it is drooped.  Also, the gun seems lighter and better balanced without the scope assembly, something to think about if wanting to install optics.

I may put a good scope on, down the road, we will see as the rifle shot well before I installed the scope, and the RWS 48/52 line are reputed to be hard on scopes.

Thanks.

[big6x6]

"Several of the catalog companies have listed their BSA line as "discontinued and no longer will be restocked", and it is a hated brand with the Greybeard topics sight on optics."

I just checked Cabelas and they still list the BSA "AR" line and have them in stock.  I've used BSAs AR4X32, AR27X32, and AR312X44 scopes.  Optically they're actually pretty good, expecially considering the price paid.  They just don't usually stand up to the recoil of anything heavier than an RWS 34, R-9, R-7, etc.  The BSA 22 Special IS noteworthy in that it is tied with a Leapers 6XAO as the worst scope I've ever purchased.  The optics look to be made of plastic.  I really didn't expect any more of it as it came with a Gamo air rifle and the scope retails for around $30.00.  BSA HAS shown to have a good return policy.  I've returned three scopes and gotten new scopes.  

"I may put a good scope on, down the road, we will see as the rifle shot well before I installed the scope, and the RWS 48/52 line are reputed to be hard on scopes."

If you want a good scope for the money for your air rifle check out the Swift 676 4-12X40AO.  It should hold up to the recoil of the RWS 48/52.

[Bad Bob]

I wasn't aware these mounts had a bad reputation.   One thing that definately helps them is oversized screws in the clamps cause mine did all kinds of moving before I added the bigger screws.  They are available at AGE.  Of course you should use locktite also.  I have a set of BKL mounts and they won't move but no provision for barrell droop.  Some RWS rifles have more droop than others.  My 34B has very little and Beeman and BKL mounts work great on it.   My carbine has a lot of droop and had to use the C-mount.   Bob