Author Topic: What's Your Opinion #2 (Read 1721 times)

MATT/WISC · « **on:** December 30, 2002, 05:25:23 PM »

Hello all!

With interest I read the comments about why indivduals decide to purchase a non-traditional muzzleloader. One of the reasons that I hear quite often is, price. "You can get one (in-line) with all you need except, powder and lead for about $90", to quote one of the comments I read. Most of the manufacturers that offer in-line rifles also produce traditional muzzleloaders. Why can't these manufacturers offer a similar package that has a traditional muzzleloader with ....... for about $90? What's your opinion?

MATT/WISC
Bottom Slappers Forever!

KING · « **Reply #1 on:** December 30, 2002, 05:43:47 PM »

MATT/WISC. I have not seen any of the inlines that you are talking about for that 90 dollar price range. Now,I know that TRADITIONS,makes one that wholesales for around 75 bucks,and I think that they have been retailing them for about 125 fer a total..That is a good question as to why they dont sell a cheaper package like they used to do in the 80's. I think TC was doing it at that time. Fer 175 or 200 ya gots a decent gun and the loading tools fer it,minus the powder. Maybe someone will anser it for us if we ask nicely. I think a lot of the guys want to get a non traditional mz becasue they think that they are safer(?) to use,and clean easier. I know a lot of the guys that stop over here for coffee,and want to get a mz all are talking about the in-lines,not any of the traditional stuff. When asking them why the choice,the all say the above,and state that they really dont have time to work up a load,and the traditionals just look like a lot of work for em. Also I might add that really none of them are into shooting as a hobby,and thier interest is not in form and/or function of same. They want to get a gun,walk into the woods,and shoot a deer. Across the board they all think that the in-lines will do this for em. I might add that one of the guys,has wounded and lost two (2) bucks this year cause he was attempting a 150 and a 175 yard shot on them. He did make a hit on both,and lost both,I also know that when he looks at my longrifles,or my Tryon he cant understand why I hunt witl them. It boils down to personal preferances. My 2 cents...King :roll:

fredj · « **Reply #2 on:** December 30, 2002, 07:38:00 PM »

I think it all boils down to numbers, they can sell a boat load of cheap inlines because there is a huge market of guys looking to fill out a second tag that would never ordinarily even consider the possibility of shooting a muzzle loader
because they wouldn't have the interest or intellectual curiosity to pursue
anything that would entail any kind of thought or worse reading.
I think it would cost at least $50.00 to produce any kind of decent barrel
the ordinance steel alone is pretty expensive, the button used to iron in the rifling is also quite expensive, and the steel has to be stress relieved
because buttoning introduces lots of stress, if they don't use the right steel and stress relieve it, the shots are going to walk all over the place as the barrel heats up. then consider the action stock etc. and the blister packaging ;-) even if the labor is Chinese political prisoners, I would think these rifles would have to be pure unadulterated junk and a waste
of money.
Perhaps the outfits that are selling them are figuring on making thier money, selling all the Pyrodex pellets, sabots, solvents, loading dodads etc
It it seems too good to be true it probably is. fredj

kevin · « **Reply #3 on:** December 30, 2002, 10:37:51 PM »

in agrement with king and matt,i ponderd the same question, what is the craz, just before christmas the wife and i made a pligrimage to basspro shop in atlanta and spoted a whole pallet with cva's in lines was courious because of the 69.95 dollar price tag, and the rifle was real cheap and clunky fealing and heavy, i tyought this thing weighs more than my coustom hawkin rifle with a 11/2 inch target barrel,after looking at it i gently plased it down and said it will intersest some one else but not me maybee i'm spoiled on my long rilfes and carbins and military muskets ,but ,i would have bought one if it went so cheap looking, instead bought a 209x .50 instead, for my encore i do have some plans for it, besides if i decide to sell the barrel i then can get my money back out of it
that would not happen with the cva.
kevin

Jack Crevalle · « **Reply #4 on:** December 31, 2002, 01:35:40 AM »

I think that one reason for choosing inline maybe be to use the Pyrodex pellets thinking that they may be faster to load, easier, etc.

This isn't my thinking you understand, it just may be the sales pitch used to sell them.

Another attraction may be the choices of projectiles. A rifle with a 1:60 twist is more limited in what you can expect to put down it.

As to the inexpensiveness, one reason may be the stock.

A friend just purchased a $150+ rifle with a plastic free-floating stock. That certainly has to be cheaper than a wood stock that has to be shaped, inletted and finished even if it is 99% done by machine.

Another reason, in addition to the labor savings of some imports, even if they are sold by US companies, may be that they are more immune from product liability suits than U.S. made arms.

Shorty · « **Reply #5 on:** January 01, 2003, 10:22:17 AM »

:wink: I'm amazed that these rifles sell so cheaply. Then I thought, maybe it's as with cameras, whereas the camera is cheap, but they rob you on the price of film! Have you seen those neat blister-packs of sabot-bullets that cost $1 per shot? That's what they expect the proud new owner of one of these guns to be buying!

Birddog6 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 01, 2003, 10:53:58 AM »

IMHO: I think it is because some hunters think it is a cheap fast easy way to get ahead or catch up with the other hunters. All I know that use them & all of them I see that use them are just plain lousy hunters with poor hunting skills & and just want to hunt the extra deer season with them. All of them I have talked to think they are immediately good shots out to 200 yards & can kill a deer with no problem at 200 yds offhand & will take the shot, so that shows ya the mentality of the buyers..... I have never seen an Inline at the shooting range other than right before deer season & very few then. I never see one squirrel hunting or varmint hunting or any other time. Also I have talked to several people that used them & they still cannot kill a deer with them, they they keep shooting innumous times & etc. It is quite comical to hear some of the stories tho. One guy I know has missed 8 deer & 3 hogs. 2 other guys I know went & both their inlines misfired. Did you know some of these inlines have to be cleaned ? Gasp !!!! Yes, I was shocked too. Who would have suspected that ! Yes, if you shoot the dang thing, then you are supposed to clean it so it will fire the next time !! The guy said if he had known that he would have never bought it ! ha ha ha !

Frog123 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 01, 2003, 07:05:03 PM »

I'm not that old but I started my muzzleloader hunting in the days of "P.I." (pre-inline). My first deer taken with a ML was with a T/C Hawken in .45 borrowed from an Uncle who had to work opening week-end. Pretty soon I aquired a CVA Hawken from a local pawn shop. I was fourteen or fifteen I think and I remember I saved and scraped to pay for it. I secretly packed a lunch of left overs and "pocketed" my lunch money at school to put toward my hunting addiction, Mom still doesn't know that's how I paid for it and a lot of other hunting and shooting things. I kept that gun for years and loved it. I carried a four cavity round ball mold to an old shop class teacher I had once for a pouring and casting demonstration. I left it with the Shop teacher so the other classes could use it and when I returned to pick it up was given it and two gallon milk jugs full of round balls out of appreciation for loaning it to the class for a couple of days. Then I suffered serious mechanical problems with the CVA and replaced it with an inline. Have I regretted it? No, I can't say that I really have. It balances better, is lighter, more accurate and more dependable. Do I wish I still had my Hawken? Sure I do, especially if I miss with the inline. Then I wish I had my Hawken back, loaded and in my hands right then and there for a second shot. I had mechanical problems with my inline, a Rem. 700ML, two years ago. I had to send it to the factory for repairs. That took six months. I had to miss the second black powder season as a result of it. I swore that I would buy a "back up" just for that reason. I too saw the numerous inlines advertised for less than 100.00 and decided I would buy one to put back if they appeared of decent quality. Before Christmas the local Farmer's Co-Op had Traditions for 89.95 and Bass Pro had CVA's for 79.95. I bought a CVA with some Christmas money given to me by a family member. I mounted a scope on it and sighted it in. Is it a "Tack Driver" No, but it does shoot "minute of deer" 3 1/2" at 100 yds average. Do I consider it a primitive weapon? No, I don't. I compare my inline to my Hawken like I compare my Mathews compound to my Bear recurve. They are both tools for putting meat on the table and at the same time providing recreation. Would I like to find another "traditional" style muzzleloader. In a heartbeat, but I too can't understand why an economical traditional style muzzleloader rifle or shotgun can't be made and sold for a reasonable price. The demand appears to be there. Until then I'll keep my eyes on the local hock shops and sporting good stores for another used one.

Frog

Birddog6 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 02, 2003, 01:55:12 AM »

Great story. Reminds me of my youth & scrimping & saving & cutting firewood & shoveling snow from driveways & cutting grass in the summer to make a lil extra $ to get what I wanted. I have an old CVA I built back in the 70's but never had any problem with othe mechanics of it. I did win a CVA inline one time & sold it for $50 the same day. Opened the box & picked it up & the front sight fell off, that was enough for me. Seems to me it was a Bobcat ? and the sight was spot welded on. IMHO, you should save your $ again and buy yourself a good used GPR. That is a good quality manufactured rifle & a good next step. In fact, you sound like a feller that could learn to shoot a flintlock & master it. You can get a kit for under $ 250.

PA Hunter · « **Reply #9 on:** January 02, 2003, 02:05:59 AM »

I own 2 flintlocks and just bot a cva firebolt(inline) this year. I used the inline in pace of my 300 win mag during the centerfire(regular) deer season. The inlines are fun to shoot, work up new loads etc. I also hunt extensively in the "flintlock only" season with runs 2 full weeks. I guess the answer as to why I bot the inline is the same answer why i bot that extra fishing rod/reel when i already have so many. My wife calls it insanity.

:grin: