Roe vs wade, 40 years, and 5-6 MILLION slaughtered babies later.

[BUGEYE]

Here is a biological fact.  An unborn baby is only half it's mother.  The other half of it's DNA is from a father.
 
What about his right to have his child?  A baby can survive outside the womb at 5 months.  Even ALL European nations have outlawed abortions after 5 months.  We still have late term abortions.  A baby is actually not part of the mother, but is like a parasite living off the mother.  If a tapeworm attaches itself in your intestines, it is not part of you, it is a seperate organism.  A baby is a seperate life. 
 
There is not excuse for abortions today.  Girls can get free birth control at a health department.  Condoms are everywhere.  I am a product of a date rape.  I'm glad they didn't have abortion back then.  I didn't find this out until recently.  Who knows what these aborted humans might have accomplished.  Most abortions until recently were white middle and upper class.

Yet another good post.
My beautiful adopted daughter could have been aborted, but the birth mother, believing in God gave my wife and I the greatest gift in the world.

[Anna]

Way to go Dixie Dude ! You damn right the father should have a say so in the life of his baby .
It took two to tango , the property rights should not be delighted to only one party .
And if the main contractor decides to opt out. Then she should be obligated to finish the contract
and the male be given full custody. I personally know some single dads that are doing an outstanding
job of raising their children from birth. And i have testified in a lot of cases on the mans side in this.
In my opinion if a mother even considers murdering her child in the womb . Then she is unfit to
raise that child and immediate and full custody should be awarded to the father or another family
member. And lets see how those mothers scream when its them paying the child support .
And believe me I have seen this, it is not acceptable to force a man to pay but not a woman .

[DDZ]

Thanks Bugeye. There are a number of reasons that the liberal mind hates Christians.

Not only does abortion snuff out a human being. It takes its toll on the mental health of the mother that decided to kill her child. Dr. Anne Speckhard studied the long term mental effects on women who had abortions. She found that ten years after the abortion 80 percent still had an unhealthy preoccupation with the aborted child. Many had flashbacks of the abortion experience. 70% remembered feeling insane about what they had done, along with nightmares. She also found that 95% regarded their abortion as an act of murder. These women are the silent suffering victims who believed the pro choice "product of conception" lie, and are still paying the price.  Liberals crack me up. They claim they are the caring ones, and the ones that are for everyones rights, but yet they choose to not recognize the most important right of all, and that is the right to life. Their argument for abortion, calling it a womens right to choose is borderline insanity.   

[billy_56081]

Some very good friends of mine adopted 2 daughters. The youngest child was a baby born of a rape. This young lady turned out to be a straight A student and set a new state record in MN in track and field. She is also the one and only person from my home town to have ever recieved a full athletic scholarship to a division one college. She is a a very pro life person. I hope some day she ends up being the spokes person for the right to life.

[ChungDoQuan]

My "liberal hatred of christians" only exists as the paranoid delusions of those who claim to perceive it. I do not hate them--- I do not ANYTHING them, i.e. no emotional response at all. I was attempting to explain the scientific, logical reason for the law. Like the mind of God, I suppose the workings of the law are beyond some people, especially the ones who refuse to learn anything more. What's it like to know everything?

[Dixie Dude]

A lot of people have changed their minds about abortion AFTER they saw ultrasounds.  Also, I know of a nurse who was assisting on an abortion.  The baby was born alive and began to cry (7 months).  She asked the doctor if he was going to do anything about it.  He just left it there.  They ended up having to give it up for adoption.  She quit that hospital and found a job elsewhere and became a staunch anti-abortionist.  Fact, it is a HUMAN life form, not animal.  Fact, babies have been known to live outside the womb at 3-4 months.  I have two granddaughters who were born ALIVE at 4 months.  They are 11 now.  Twins.  Mother went into labor and had them premature.  They only weighed about 1-1/2-2 lbs.  One could fit into my hands.  Why play God with abortion.  At the very least, stop after the first trimester.  Woman should at least know something by then.  I have always said, do what the anti-gun people do with abortion.  Push to stop late terms, then push to stop after 5 months, then push to 3 months.  At least we could stop some and have more children born.  Like someone said, if the 53 million the last 40 years had been born, they would be working, paying taxes into social security, etc.  They would be consumers, and we might not be in this bubble of baby boomers ready to retire with social security in the pits and no way to pay into it.  I know of many women from churches I have attended who messed up their wombs with an abortion and they could not have children later.  Also most of the staunch anti-abortionists are women who had one as a teen and regretted it ever since.  We have so many people who adopt Russian, Romanian, and Korean babies because they can't find American babies to adopt. 
 
To me it is sacrificing the children to the idol of hedonism.
 
I fear the judgement of God on our nation because of Abortion, calling good evil, and evil good, gay marriage, high divorce rate, sexual immorality, greed, murder, lazyness.  Like ancient Rome gave the poor circuses and bread and debased themselves in all manner of imorality while the barbarians were crossing the borders.  Our nations cup of sin is almost full.  God is withdrawing Himself from protecting and blessing our nation and will allow the consequenses of it's sins to destroy it.  We see it happening every day.  Human life is not sacred anymore.  The lives of animals are more important.  Murder and abortion is rampant.  I fear for my grandchildren.   

[ChungDoQuan]

YOUR individual experience and belief is NOT everyone else's.

[powderman]

YOUR individual experience and belief is NOT everyone else's.

 
Seems to be everyone elses but yours and the dnc. POWDERMAN. 

[BUGEYE]

Some very good friends of mine adopted 2 daughters. The youngest child was a baby born of a rape. This young lady turned out to be a straight A student and set a new state record in MN in track and field. She is also the one and only person from my home town to have ever recieved a full athletic scholarship to a division one college. She is a a very pro life person. I hope some day she ends up being the spokes person for the right to life.

Just another reason not to murder you baby.

[BUGEYE]

YOUR individual experience and belief is NOT everyone else's.

 
Seems to be everyone elses but yours and the dnc. POWDERMAN. 

LOL, seems that way don't it.  If you eliminate God, you lose.

[RevJim]

 I'm Pro-Life, anti-abortion, however, since abortion has become such a big money maker ( the Love of Money)  I feel the best place to "start" the reformation of RvW is to relax the age limits and unrealistic restrictions on adopting couples/singles. I have had two couples in the past who were desperate to adopt. They both had jobs, stable homelife, churchlife, yet they never measured up and were denied. They were either too old to start or were too old by the time they got through jumping through the hoops. I really get torqued up whenever I hear an argument that "Pro-Lifers won't adopt all the babies, etc."  I see single Celebrities (who have a lot of money)  allowed to adopt, Gay couples (Politically Correct) allowed to adopt, and yet, ordinary couples are denied on a regular basis. I honestly believe that most women would adopt out their babies if they felt they would actually be adopted by someone, and not raised in an Orphanage. People make mistakes, people make bad choices; some people make stupid bad choices and stupid mistakes and an unwanted baby is conceived. Only a fraction of pregnancies are the result of rape/incest/save the mother's life, arguably necessary or accepted candidates for termination. The majority are just birth control in its most heinous form. These are valid arguments, but while we all argue, babies are dying. Lets start off with being practical, by allowing more adoptions.
There are plenty of people young and old, who have the money and the means to rear a child "or five" if allowed to. This would at least be a safety net for some women, and a chance for a life for some babies. Other than that, as long as there is money to be made ( or extorted from tax-payers) the fight will go on. "56 Million" dead babies.....the sheer size of that number is incomprehensible to the average American so it goes in one ear, out the other. God help us...

[RevJim]

 Oh yea, hang in there Chung, though I believe you are wrong in many areas ( as I'm sure you feel I am/could be also) , I certainly believe you have the right and the welcome to say it.   As you have discovered, this is a highly emotional issue with many of us, and its difficult to discuss, especially in a Forum. I do appreciate your input and I hope you keep posting...

[Brett]

RevJim, Good post, I agree.  Seems like the dingbats have no trouble adopting but the good folks have to jump threw hoops.   

[powderman]

I really get torqued up whenever I hear an argument that "Pro-Lifers won't adopt all the babies, etc."  I see single Celebrities (who have a lot of money)  allowed to adopt, Gay couples (Politically Correct) allowed to adopt, and yet, ordinary couples are denied on a regular basis.

 
REV JIM. Good post Sir. If our adoption laws are too strict, CHANGE THEM. No reason to go to foreign countries to adopt, there are plenty of great kids right here in America. I believe that here in KY it is illegal for homosexuals to adopt, as it should be all over America.
We never knew til my uncles funeral that my cousin Ken was adopted. POWDERMAN. 

[BUGEYE]

RevJim, it took us 14 years to adopt.  And we met many couples in the same boat.

[Doublebass73]

Way to go Dixie Dude ! You damn right the father should have a say so in the life of his baby .
It took two to tango , the property rights should not be delighted to only one party .
And if the main contractor decides to opt out. Then she should be obligated to finish the contract
and the male be given full custody. I personally know some single dads that are doing an outstanding
job of raising their children from birth. And i have testified in a lot of cases on the mans side in this.
In my opinion if a mother even considers murdering her child in the womb . Then she is unfit to
raise that child and immediate and full custody should be awarded to the father or another family
member. And lets see how those mothers scream when its them paying the child support .
And believe me I have seen this, it is not acceptable to force a man to pay but not a woman .

Excellent post Anna.

[nw_hunter]

It's very evident here, that most on the forum are Pro-Life. Including myself!
There is a small group of people who frequent the forum that are not!I would venture to say most who favor abortion of Babies are not Republican (I do know some who are)They vote party line Republican anyway. Also know Democrats who abhore abortion.I know lots of Southern Baptists that are Democrats, and few if any believe in abortion.I even have an atheist friend who is against abortion. "Imagine that"

That said! We can argue our case till Hell freezes over, and it won't change one mind that's made up.Some have different views as to when life begins.
Try if you must, but do it without name calling and other violations of the forum rules. I know it's a touchy subject, but it can be done without getting carried away.

I liked Ron Paul's response to his views on abortion............He said, he had delivered many, many babies, and never aborted one! Talk is cheap! Actions can cost you an election

[Dixie Dude]

The compromise would be to outlaw abortions after 5 months like Europeans.  The pro lifers don't want that.  The pro-choicers don't either.  Both want it all the way one way or the other.  Right now it is far left with pro-choice.  The left never compromises.  The right needs to adapt the lefts policy of incrementalism like with gun control.  Get some abortions outlawed like late term, then move down to 5 months.  That would make a lot of people think about what they are doing. 

[Doublebass73]

The compromise would be to outlaw abortions after 5 months like Europeans.  The pro lifers don't want that.  The pro-choicers don't either.  Both want it all the way one way or the other.  Right now it is far left with pro-choice.  The left never compromises.  The right needs to adapt the lefts policy of incrementalism like with gun control.  Get some abortions outlawed like late term, then move down to 5 months.  That would make a lot of people think about what they are doing.

I agree Dixie, you will never see abortion outlawed all at once. The best approach would be incrementalism, we could use terms that the left likes to use for gun control like "common sense".

I would love to see a law implemented that requires the biological father's sign off before a woman can legally get an abortion. If a man is on the hook for 18 years of child support then he should at least have a say in the life of a child that is half his. In each case the woman would be required to pay for a paternity test at her expense to prove who the father is. Once that is done then and only then can she get an abortion after the biological father signs off on it. In a case where she wants the abortion but the biological father won't sign off on it then she would have the option to sign away all rights to the child and the father could raise it by himself. Sounds like a fair "common sense" compromise to me.

[powderman]

I would love to see a law implemented that requires the biological father's sign off before a woman can legally get an abortion. If a man is on the hook for 18 years of child support then he should at least have a say in the life of a child that is half his

 
DBLBASS. Agreed Sir. POWDERMAN. 

[RevJim]

I would love to see a law implemented that requires the biological father's sign off before a woman can legally get an abortion. If a man is on the hook for 18 years of child support then he should at least have a say in the life of a child that is half his

 Heck, just watch The Maury Show, most women there don't have any idea who Baby Daddy is and the accused Baby Daddy denies it the whole time! Not much paternal commitment out there amongst the "party people". I think you have a great idea, and its a start, I'm just afraid its like Gun Laws and will only work on the folks least likely to have an abortion...but anything helps.

[dwalk]

It's legalised murder, plain and simple. It's also a direct 10th Amendment violation.

What I find particularly repulsive is the father of the baby has no say in the matter. The mother gets to be executioner while the father is powerless. As a man who is blessed and grateful to have custody of my own 3 children I know there are many men out there who would graciously raise these babies by themselves if they could only have the chance. The government forces men to pay child support for 18 years on their child but doesn't give these same men any voice in whether the baby gets murdered or not.

^^^by far, one of the best, most sensible counters to R vs wade.


1. the statistics make the holocaust look pale by comparison...there have been 54 MILLION abortions since it became "Law"


2. the unborn child and the mother do NOT share blood...the unborn child gets it's blood from the FATHER.


3. the unborn child is FED via umbilical cord is it not? it is a separate life NOT a part of the mother. (as is her heart, lungs, arms. legs etc) the unborn child has a living, functioning, brain...this, in itself, signifies a SEPARATE being is being carried by the mother.


4. this is very astonishing in itself when you think about it...most abortions are performed on unwed, underage, black girls...could this be a covert way of genocide? aparthied? discrimination at it's worse? most abortions are funded by planned partenthood, a federally funded program that's admittedly, proven to be communist in origin..hmmmmmm...makes one wonder.


5. we live with the notion, from many, if not most, on the left, that's it's "cruel and unusual" punishment to execute viscious, murderers*...yet condone the taking of the life of an unborn child...and some want to go as far as to allow live birth abortion. why not have a "Trial" program? keep the child for 6 months...if you don't like/want the child, then have it killed...or...perhaps...adopted by a loving, caring, family...


*i find it very odd, even somewhat perplexng, that many would have a murderer sentenced to life imprisonment, without the possibility of parole, over having them executed, yet, our prisons, that have been labeled as being "Cruel and barbaric", would have them spend the rest of their natural life; that...IMO, is cruel and unusual punishment.


i DO accept, and believe, that in cases of rape, incest, or life threatening situations, the mother should have the option of aborting, or not.

[powderman]

There will always be folks that want to love babies, and those who just want to kill them. POWDERMAN. 

[BUGEYE]

http://www.abortionfacts.com/facts/13

http://www.abort73.com/abortion/does_a_fetus_feel_pain/

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18785-briefing-new-law-claims-a-fetus-can-feel-pain.html

I've got an idea, during an abortion, have a pro-life person in the room with a pair of pliers.
let the pro-lifer grab some flesh with the pliers and twist.  then ask the mother if she stills wants the baby to feel something like.