POI for .357 Maxi and .38 spl loads

[44 Man]

In another post, Doublebass73 'almost' answered a question I have and rather than hijack the thread for clarification, I thought I should post a new one.  The question is about using .38 spl in a .357 Max rifle.  If I had a .357 Max and sighted it in for 100 yds with a full hunting load such as 180 gr 35 rem bullet, would (or could) it also shoot full .38 spl loads close to the sights at 25 to 40 yds?  Of course all loads vary but it seems to me that many of you insinuate that they do shoot that way.  Is it 'to the sights' for most of you or is the .38 load 'close enough' for bunnies?  I've always been a 'one load-one rifle' type guy.  I like the idea that when I pick up a rifle, I know exactally where it will shoot with my loaded ammo.  But I can also see the usefulness (and fun) of a Maxi and special load IF they shoot close enough to be usable without sight changes.  Thanks for your input all you Maxi shooters!  44 Man

[gcrank1]

Ya took the thought right outta my head there, 44......(iffn Id a been thinkin'). Not unlike havin' yer 30-06 sighted in for 'whatever' with the big heavy and knowin' that it'll put a 32-20 equiv. load into a Sage Hen at 15-25yd.

[craigster]

I don't have a Max, but I do have a Mag. In my rifle,  38s and 357st shoot to close to the same impac right around 30 (+/-) yards. I forget the exact "rule of thumb" distance but the trajectory of most rifle bullets (regardless of velocity) rises above the line of sight somewhere between your specified 25-40 yds. I think the distance I recall reading/hearing about was 33 yards (?).

[murphdog]

I'm probably not the best man to answer this, as I have a 357 max that I'm still trying to figure out.  It shoots maxi's with good accuracy, and specials with decent accuracy, but the point of impact is inches apart at 50 yards (enough to completely miss a squirrel), and the difference is both vertical and horizontal, so I can't just aim with a different dot on the mil-dot.  I'm guessing that if I keep playing with the loads, I may eventually find two that at least line up vertically, but I'm just not there yet.  Its seems to me that the 357max is more finicky to load for (compared to 44mag).  Its for this reason that I still find myself carrying my 44 when I go to the woods.  With that gun I can take a deer at 100 yards, or drop in a subsonic cast load and hit a squirrel out to 35 yards, without making any adjustment in sights.  But the people who really ought to answer this is CW or Petemi.  They've got the 357max down pat.  Perhaps they'll chime in soon. 
Duane

[Doublebass73]

44man,

My range only goes to 75 yards so I sighted in my hunting load 1 inch high at 75 yards. This is a 180 grain SSP over a max load of Lil'Gun. I'm shooting an '83 vintage factory Maxi.

I then shot 2 different 38 Special loads, both standard pressure.

1st load was a medium power practice load that I shoot in my Ruger LCR, 158 grain LSWC over IMR PB. This load is very accurate in my LCR but was all over the place out of the Maxi. It also shot about 4 inches high at 25 yards so this load was no good for "dual purpose".

2nd load was a 140 grain Sierra JHP over IMR-4227. It shot dead nuts at 25 yards with a nice tight group at the same sight setting as my Maxi hunting load. Accuracy in my LCR is also acceptable with this load so now I'm all set for a "dual purpose" 38 Special load. Like I mentioned in the other thread I took a squirrel with this load at 35 yards so I'm happy with it. I'm also happy that it only took 2 tries to find this.

[Hobie]

I would think that you'd have to try your particular .38 Special load in your rifle as it is sighted for your particular .357 Max load.  IME just as different Max loads shoot to different POI so do the Mag and Special loads.  MY approach is to sight for a particular Max load and then work from their trying every other load to see just what POI I will get at what distance.  If one is willing to do this then one can find some very field practical combinations. 

[petemi]

My problem is that I must have 15 different .38 loads between factory and hand loads.  In fact, yesterday I found a box of 125 gr. FMJ with reloadable brass for 14.95 at my favorite candy store.  And he has more.  He also still had 4 boxes of Hornady 75 gr. .223 ammo.  I just couldn't pass up the .38s for the grandson's plinking.  One of the things I need to do this Spring is figure out this .38/maxi POI thing.  If I recall correctly, thejanitor told me he did it last summer.  His kids were shooting corn kernels at 25 yards with .38s out of the maxi.  I'll have to pick his brains on it. 

Pete

[Couger]

In another post, Doublebass73 'almost' answered a question I have and rather than hijack the thread for clarification, I thought I should post a new one.  The question is about using .38 spl in a .357 Max rifle.  If I had a .357 Max and sighted it in for 100 yds with a full hunting load such as 180 gr 35 rem bullet, would (or could) it also shoot full .38 spl loads close to the sights at 25 to 40 yds?  Of course all loads vary but it seems to me that many of you insinuate that they do shoot that way.  Is it 'to the sights' for most of you or is the .38 load 'close enough' for bunnies?  I've always been a 'one load-one rifle' type guy.  I like the idea that when I pick up a rifle, I know exactally where it will shoot with my loaded ammo.  But I can also see the usefulness (and fun) of a Maxi and special load IF they shoot close enough to be usable without sight changes.  Thanks for your input all you Maxi shooters!  44 Man

Can't really add anything to your thread, but for two ideas.
 
Even if a .38 load wasn't spot on, what might you could do with some minimal Kentucky windage? (if you knew the adjustment needed)
 
And, what about taping (or affixing) a small but clearly written set of ballistic figures on the side of the rifle stock that told you the trajectory for round #1, round #2, etc.?
 
I too would first determine my Maxi deer/elk load, then determine other performances with that POI.

[Whiterabbitttttt]

My 38+p from midway and gunshow cheapie lead cast 357 ammo shoots to the same POI to the sights at 50 yards. Close enough for bunnies at 100.
 
My 37 max load shoots 2" high and 2" to the left at 50 yards, haven't tried 100, or tried to further refine the load since it's just jacketed stuff. And I bougth the thing to be a 38+p shooter anyways.

[petemi]

I may have just found something this morning.  It seems pretty good for a starting place.  My 16.5 inch Maxi is sighted in for 200.  This morning, I set up some small Gatorade jugs at 30 yards and picked them off, shooting off the porch rail.  It seems that the 180 gr. SSP over 23.7 gr. Lil Gun at 2150 fps. is hitting pretty much the same as the .38+P 158 gr. cast over 4.5 gr. Unique at 950 fps.  They both seem to be on at 30 yards.  It's too windy and nasty to set up the shooting bench to prove it, but it's a beginning.  I'll get back into it with the bench and targets in better weather.

Pete

[thejanitor]

With our max hunting load w 180 gr- 100 yd zero and with the 160 gr wadcutter with trailboss load we use for subsonic yard work we had only ever shot them out to 20 yds or so, I wasn't shocked to see 16 inches of drop poi difference at 100 yds but what did amaze me is that the wadcutter was a nice (for never being intended to shoot that far when we loaded them up)  less than 3 inch group. The maxi group was way better but it just floored me how the wadcutter even grouped at that distance  just seemed out of charactor for a bullet you can see going through the air. I know up close the trail boss loads are quiet and effective, and I did carry the max for deer just never had a chance to try it, so my max is so far just a chipmunk gun  .   thejanitor

[tacklebury]

I have mine set up with a 4x32 Bugbuster Mil-dot scope.  Lets me zero the 100 yard H110 heavy load and then I play with dots to get to good point for plinkers.  Works pretty well in my experience.