Author Topic: Interpretation of the rules?  (Read 874 times)

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Offline Troy G

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Interpretation of the rules?
« on: February 20, 2004, 07:39:07 AM »
Would a Hunter Rem .260 on a Rem 700 long action be legal?

Offline Arizona Jake

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Interpretation of the rules?
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2004, 11:11:34 AM »
I see no reason why not!

The .260 Remington is a "commercial" cartridge with production hunting rifles chambered for it.

As long as the rifle has a tapered barrel, a traditional hunting-style stock, weighs no mote than 9.0 lbs and has a trigger pull no lighter than 2.0 lbs., it meets the acceptance criteria. Action length should not affect acceptability. Just my $.02...
Joaquin B.:cb2:

Offline kahuna

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Interpretation of the rules?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2004, 09:19:08 AM »
Troy
You may have a problem with feeding from magazine because the action is to long.
Larry
Life member N.R.A.

Offline cslcAl

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Interpretation of the rules?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2004, 10:34:44 AM »
I know a fellow who built one, and he had no problems with feeding.
Al

Offline nomad

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Interpretation of the rules?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2004, 11:30:54 AM »
Does anyone on board know what constitutes a 'factory' cartridge?

I consider that any 6mm or larger, non-belted or magnum round having a SAAMI spec and that is or was factory loaded is legal -- within target damage limits -- but I may be off base.

Are there non-factory rounds with SAAMI specs?
Does it actually have to have anything more than a factory headstamp? Does it have to have ever been factory chambered...in a rifle?
Anything else I'm missing?
I don't see where any of this is in the book...
E Kuney

Offline Troy G

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Interpretation of the rules?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2004, 12:07:25 PM »
I thought I would maybe try a .260 on a long action to avoid having to seat the 140 VLDs below the case neck shoulder junction and still be able to feed from a magazine.

Offline Mongo1

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Interpretation of the rules?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2004, 05:26:37 PM »
E,

I have not confirmed this, as I do not have access to SAAMI records, but my understanding is that there are a great many cartridges which have not been filed with SAAMI for the express purpose of keeping them proprietary.  There are also a wide variety of CIP cartridges and ones which have not been filed with them.  

I would think that if you can buy a rifle chambered for the cartridge from a manufacturer and either ammunition or brass it would be a "factory cartridge".

Offline DanDeMan

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Interpretation of the rules?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2004, 05:41:49 PM »
Troy,

The issue of short vs long actions has been much discussed by those that are interested in having the best rifle possible built.  Here is my take with regard to HP Hunter.  For Standard HP short is the way to go, but much of what will follow concerning reamer design holds true for Standard also.

Given that there is a max of 26" for the barrel, a longer action will push the muzzle out a little further than a short action and thereby improve hold due to slightly increased moment of inertial that slows muzzle movement that results from a shooter's ability to settle in and damp down movement.  The down side is that the longer actions have less stiffness and therefore a bit less inherent accuracy for a given bedding job.  That reduction is trivial except for BR shooters.  As to added weight, well, the added action length is at the lightest part of the action, which does not contribute much to increased weight.  Sure the mag is longer, but once again the total added weight is not that much.  One could argue with a reasonable amount of justification that a long action just might be better than a short action if one is not confronting a rifle weight issue for Hunter HP and they are going to use a 26” barrel.

The optimization issue of bullet seating depth for a 6.5-08 is a matter for a properly designed chamber reamer for HP Hunter rifles.  Well heck, there are plenty of Standard rifles I’ve checked out that have poorly designed chambers too.  Unfortunately there are few properly designed reamers for Hunter HP.  The reamer should be designed so that both the 107/108 class bullets as well as ram bullets have plenty of neck tension, are in the lands and will feed out of the magazine.  How far the ram bullet is in the case is no consequence.  It just does not matter at all for our HP Hunter application using a 6.5-08 that should shoot ¼ MOA groups.

Reamers have been designed that allow both the short animal and ram bullets to hit the lands for optimum accuracy as well as feed properly.  The MetalHead, Marvin Pearson, copied my design and had his reamer ground by the best in the business.  Also, many of the so-called "tight" spec reamers are not designed for optimum accuracy.  They are "tight" in name only.  I have checked out quite a few prints from the major reamer grinders and can say with no equivocation that most barrels are cut with less than optimal reamers.  I would never have a barrel cut by “tight” spec reamer from ANY of the prints I’ve reviewed from the reamer grinders, NO WAY JOSE!  There are a number of issues that must be worked through to design an optimum, feed from mag reamer for HP Hunter Silhouette.

Another point, there are many that say the 107/108's will not shoot in their 6.5-08 rifles.  Those individuals should know that the reason accuracy is poor is that their chambers were cut, buy their gunsmiths, with a poorly designed reamer.

All the best,

Dan Theodore
All the best,

Dan Theodore

Offline ajj

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Interpretation of the rules?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2004, 02:49:11 AM »
Troy: You've probably already considered the 6.5x55 Swede and have your own reasons for wanting the 260 but you do get just a smidgen (that's about two skoshes) more powder capacity for heavy ram bullets and that nice Lapua brass ready to go.

Offline Troy G

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Thanks
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2004, 04:15:53 PM »
Dan I have seen Marv's reamer print and thanks for the reply.  At this time I am having a .260 Hunter built on a Rem 700 short action mostly because I have a Nesika hunter stock semi inletted for a short action.

I personally do not think that more velocity than the .260 generates is necessary.  If the TKS can do 2700 fps with a 140 there is no reason the .260 will not do the same albeit with more powder.  I will be necking up .243 Win Lapua brass to 6.5.