Author Topic: 338 in a handi? which one???? (Read 1138 times)

jammer308 · « **on:** February 14, 2013, 05:29:22 AM »

I've been thinking and i'd love to have a handi chambered in 338. originally thought i'd try a 338 federal and that would also be great for my intended use, but the extra power the 338 win mag offers might be better. then i tinkered around with the idea of a 338-06..... i do intend to reload although im not yet set up, my main use will be deer and black bear hunting in northern wisconsin. the extra power is solely desired for the just in case i get jumped by a bear or mountain lion "i want em off of me NOW". that and i just love my handi in 243 and want a big brother to it. i may go to the northwest in the future and if that happens i intend on a rifle better suited for the big bears so lets just concentrate on wisconsin bruins with the possibility of wolves and mountain lions. ... can it be done? has it been done? if so what are my best options to go about it. stubbing or re-chamber? either way who would be best to do the work for me? i was thinking maybe a survivor barrel re bored and chambered for the extra weight and length to help with recoil and powder burn.. if this is the way then which would be easiest for the smith, 223 or 308??? the rifle would only be set up with iron sights or ghost ring, no scope.. the areas i hunt are THICK and close up fast shooting is the norm. ive always got a 454 in the crossdraw if it comes to that... thanks chris

Sourdough · « **Reply #1 on:** February 14, 2013, 05:37:28 AM »

Yes, Tim as well as several others have .338-06s. I thought about it myself, but decided to stick with my 30-06. It knocks down Grizzlies, Black Bears, and Moose just fine.

jammer308 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 14, 2013, 05:48:59 AM »

oh yeah i have a 30 06.. gotcha!! but its set up for fields and longer yardage with a scope. and wouldnt you just feel better with a 338 in terms of making em feel it if one is comin for ya??? that and i've never owned a 338 of any chambering and just think it would be cool

..

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** February 14, 2013, 06:00:23 AM »

If you want the extra length, a 26" 25-06 or 280 barrel would be the way to go, a Survivor barrel is only 22", the 308 wouldn't work for a 338-06, you'd have to go 338-06 Improved to clean up the chamber, but the 223 would work. The 338 Win Mag is too much for the Handi platform. Check out Hodgdon data for the 338-06, 3000fps is easy with 180gr bullets and they used a 24" barrel.

I think the only bullets I ever chrono'd were the 230gr Failsafes at just over 2600fps in my 26" Ultra. Wayne York did the rebore, cost was just over $300 IIRC, Mac had one done too, he sold it to someone here, I don't remember who for sure, I think it was JerryKo and he may have resold it, been a while. If'n I was gonna do one now, I'd have Jesse do it, he does .338" 3-groove and up rebores for $225 shipped, add reamer rent if he doesn't have the reamer.

Tim

http://www.35caliber.com/2.html

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,66982.msg407393.html#msg407393

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,68379.msg417427.html#msg417427

elkslayer4x5 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 14, 2013, 06:03:30 AM »

I would think that either the .338 Federal or the .338-06 would be a safe chambering, but not the .338 Win Mag, that belted case holds a lot of powder! Just sayin.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #5 on:** February 14, 2013, 06:20:41 AM »

i would go 35 whelen and a red-dot scope.....save you lots of money and time
if a 30-06 weren't enough

nothing faster than a red-dot...other than just pointing or bead on shotgun
red-dot is the best in bad light....and the 35 whelen already has the scope base

i have a few handis with the bushnell trs-25.....holds up to the 45-70

jammer308 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 14, 2013, 06:28:24 AM »

ok thanks guys, thats what i was wanting to know on the win mag... i thought it might be too much but hey you dont know till you ask. thanks also for the info tim.

as i said i have other rifles but they're either too light in caliber or set up for long range and i dont want to change that on my 06' .. i want a "handi" rifle with iron sights for crashing through the thick brush in wisconsin that will stop one in its tracks if i need to. i suppose a handi in 45 70 or 35 whelen could be had cheaper and easier but i'm just lusting after a 338 for some reason. was looking at a savage hog hunter in 338 win. but i feel the 20" barrel is too short for the cartridge and a break action would allow me a bit more barrel length while still retaining a shorter rifle. somewhat. oh well.... ill look more into the 338 -06 but maybe the federal is really what i'm after. also as i said i do intend to reload and will also be loading for 243 and 308 win so the federal would be right at home on my bench... so would the 06.. ohhh the choices..

let me ask this. what is the recoil like in the 338-06 is it still comparable to my 30-06?? im talking strickly handi rifles here.. chris

cwlongshot · « **Reply #7 on:** February 14, 2013, 06:31:32 AM »

Quote from: elkslayer4x5 on February 14, 2013, 06:03:30 AM

I would think that either the .338 Federal or the .338-06 would be a safe chambering, but not the .338 Win Mag, that belted case holds a lot of powder! Just sayin.

I agree, MY choice would be to look hard at the Federal OR the Marlin in 338... Just cause I like different.

FORGET the 338 Mag... If you need those ballistics, look to the 35 Whelen. It almost gets there and does it with bigger bullets.

Personally not a 338 fan as the 358 does everything I could ask of it easily shadowing anything the 338 could.

Then the 338s claim was more bullets than the 358... not so true these days.

CW

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** February 14, 2013, 06:34:54 AM »

There's not a lot of difference in recoil given equal bullets weights, but I'm sure the 230gr and 250gr 338-06 rounds I've shot had a bit more recoil than a 30-06, I have shot 200gr Nosler Partitions in my Ultracomp, but it's braked, so not a good comparison. If you handload the only advantage the 338 Federal has over the 338-06 is in a short action repeater, a moot point in a Handi since action length isn't applicable.

Tim

jammer308 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 14, 2013, 06:46:55 AM »

ok so could i just re chamber an existing 30-06 to 338-06? what are my options there? and how would that round do in a 22" barrel??? i'm also going to look deeper into the 35 whelen now as well, thanks CW. man wouldnt it be cool if h&r would make a double rifle??? JUST SAYIN'..... chris

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** February 14, 2013, 06:53:27 AM »

The rechamber would require a rebore too, not sure if the .308" to .338" is enough difference, you'd have to check with the smith who does the work.

Tim

cudatruck · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2013, 06:54:10 AM »

Is that .338 Marlin rimmed? I think that would be the way to go. Sure to be a rare one.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** February 14, 2013, 06:56:54 AM »

Yes, it's rimmed, not a requirement tho, rimless works just fine.

Tim

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/453330/hornady-reloading-brass-338-marlin-express-box-of-50

petemi · « **Reply #13 on:** February 14, 2013, 09:18:50 AM »

I'm missing something here.......you live in Northern Wisconsin.....probably a couple hundred miles west of me. Da wolves and da bears ain't gonna bother ya. Yer chances a runnin inta a mountain lion are about as good as gettin bit by a rattler and hit by lightnin. at da same time. Even if ya did, he doesn't weigh more than a deer and is thin skinned. Ya doan need no anti-tank gun where you live. You've got an '06 (a caliber I'm not real fond of) so what's the gripe??? It'll work just fine close up and personal. If ya want something new get the Whelen.

Pete

fish280 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 14, 2013, 10:19:30 AM »

ya sure seem set on a .338 bore. can't fault ya there. gotta say an '06 with 200-grain partitions or 220-grain round noses would do in just about anything. a lot cheaper to put sights on a standard handi '06, too. but hey, i'm cheap.

for an up close, compact, thumpin' package, i'd go handi .45-70 with stocks of yer choice, peep and firesight front sight; or the same in .30-'06. that's what i'm going to do ...

hoytcanon · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2013, 04:10:46 PM »

Quote from: petemi on February 14, 2013, 09:18:50 AM

I'm missing something here.......you live in Northern Wisconsin.....probably a couple hundred miles west of me. Da wolves and da bears ain't gonna bother ya... If ya want something new get the Whelen. Pete

Even if they did come at you... or say a really lost polar bear... do you really want a break action single shot for your protection rifle??? Oh, and PS... the .338 does REALLY well in a short barrel... so if you just gotta have a .338, look at the Savage again.

geezerbiker · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2013, 05:16:15 PM »

Maybe I'm weird (don't answer that) but I've always wanted a .33 WCF. It's an obsolete round that dates back to 1886 and is pretty much a .45-70 necked down to .338". I've heard it referred to as the grandfather of the .338 Win mag...

Tony

jammer308 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2013, 05:19:35 PM »

guys i've been around them enough to know they aint gonna bother me. i also know that if a mountain lion is a comin, he's seen me long before i knew he was there and it'll probably be time for me to scramble on the ground to get my revolver out of its holster while he's chewin on my azz, not much good for a long gun in that case. but i want one. i've seen all of them on camera at several stands. as i said the 06 i have is scoped and i want it to stay that way. i have several 12 gauges that will do and have served this purpose for some time. but i like my single shots, no i love them. and i just been starting to learn about the 338 so the more i read the more i agree with the 35 whelen. i think sending my '06 frame off to get fitted for one is my best option. i want a short, light, hard hitter for moving through the thick stuff up there, deer and bear hunting, that will also be very painful for anything with teeth and claws comin at me up close, even though its not likely ever gonna happen. i hope. but it could, and it has. so....... no other reason than my lil man on my shoulder says i need one.

i still want a 338 but the 35 whelen really is making so much sense. ... hoytcannon, you say the 338 win. does really well in a short barrel.. can you give any data to show how? seems like an awful lotta powder for a 20" barrel. i do like that savage quite a bit. chris

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2013, 05:27:19 PM »

H&R has the 35 Whelen with sights listed on the acc barrel page, best get one soon, they've been listed as limited qty for quite a while.

Tim

http://www.hr1871.com/Support/accessoryProgram.asp

jammer308 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2013, 05:37:19 PM »

thanks for the heads up!!

jammer308 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 14, 2013, 05:43:18 PM »

tim do you know by chance does that whelen come with an ejector or extractor?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** February 14, 2013, 06:28:07 PM »

Extractor only, all H&R centerfire rifle barrels have been extractors since about 2007-2008, only rimfire and shotguns still have ejectors.

Tim

jammer308 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 15, 2013, 12:13:03 PM »

gotcha. thanks again!! chris

Dinny · « **Reply #23 on:** February 15, 2013, 03:07:39 PM »

Getting a 357 Mag rechambered to 356/358 Win will do the same for you with less powder than the Whelen. Especially if it's just for shorter ranges. Hardly much of a difference under 100yds.

Thanks, Dinny

jammer308 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 16, 2013, 02:39:21 AM »

thanks dinny.

im a bit confused here though. i did look at the 358 winchester (based off the 308 win) is that the one you're speaking of? if so.. wikipedia shows that round as 16 gr. of powder pushes a 250 gr bullet about 2200 fps @ 2687 ft pnds... where the 35 whelen uses the same amount of powder for a 250 gr bullet to get up to 2500 fps and 3500 ft pnds??? how accurate is this wikipedia? is the info outdated? i realize its not going to be exact and it will vary in barrel to barrel but that seems like a bigger difference and the reason i'm liking the whelen.. i already own a 243 and 308 and like them very much. the 358 win would be very welcome here but i relly like the extra power im seeing here with the whelen... thanks chris

Hunter6657 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 16, 2013, 03:21:34 AM »

61grs of powder perhaps?

Quote from: jammer308 on February 16, 2013, 02:39:21 AM

thanks dinny. im a bit confused here though. i did look at the 358 winchester (based off the 308 win) is that the one you're speaking of? if so.. wikipedia shows that round as 16 gr. of powder pushes a 250 gr bullet about 2200 fps @ 2687 ft pnds... where the 35 whelen uses the same amount of powder for a 250 gr bullet to get up to 2500 fps and 3500 ft pnds??? how accurate is this wikipedia? is the info outdated? i realize its not going to be exact and it will vary in barrel to barrel but that seems like a bigger difference and the reason i'm liking the whelen.. i already own a 243 and 308 and like them very much. the 358 win would be very welcome here but i relly like the extra power im seeing here with the whelen... thanks chris

gcrank1 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 16, 2013, 04:16:23 AM »

IMHO, In any critical scenario you only have one shot outta that short long-gun anyway.........but consider this,
Why is it that on all the wildlife programs about dangerous bear country the 'bear-gun' they pull out is (appears to be) a 12ga. repeater? Pumps are the most often seen I think. An old style 'police' 12ga. pump, cheap, effective, whats wrong with that? Well, I know.......its not the 338..........
If you are just enamored of the sgl. shot platform for your stated purpose for a thumper load, get a 20 or 12ga. (smooth or rifled) slug shooter c/w sights.

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · « **Reply #27 on:** February 16, 2013, 02:47:36 PM »

if you're talking jacketed ballistics, a 358 is far short of the whelen.

with the better powders out now, some guys are getting near 2700fps with 250gr. That is near 338WinMag.

and 180gr to 3200fps.... that is over 400fps over a 30-06 factory.

a Whelen can be loaded to awesomeness for an Aught-Three parent cartridge. It really brings out the potential.

and I'm sure Quick can tell you about the WhelenIMP/IMP!

a 358 can't touch that.

but tone it down to reasonableness, and the 358 comes into the game.
but you can always download the whelen also.

but when/IF you need power, the whelen has nearly a ton of energy at 300yds.
I wonder what a 30-30 has at the muzzle??

gcrank1 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 16, 2013, 03:28:19 PM »

Im still not sold on the idea that critters are equivalent to a ballistic pendulum.

Dinny · « **Reply #29 on:** February 16, 2013, 03:47:23 PM »

Quote from: gcrank1 on February 16, 2013, 03:28:19 PM

Im still not sold on the idea that critters are equivalent to a ballistic pendulum.

I agree, Craig Boddington calls the 358 Win his favorite black bear cartridge.

Thanks, Dinny