AK's in Iraq

[Oldtimer]

I saw an article with an AP byline, in the Richmond (VA) Times-Dispatch about American troops using AK's in preference to the GI mouse guns. Seems Kalishnikov's baby likes to play in sand  better than our stuff.  Also, they like the firepower and knockdown of the 7.62 better than the 5.56 when things get up close and personal.  Imagine that. :twisted:

[John Traveler]

Yes, I CAN imagine that GI's would use confiscated AK's in a war zone, in the belief that they are more reliable and have more stopping power than our service rifles.

However, it's a misplaced belief, and the practice is highly discouraged.

A properly cleaned and maintained M16A2/M4 service rifle is just as reliable, if not MORE so than an indifferently maintained AK.  This has been proven from extensive smalls arms testing conducted by some of the finest ordnance testing institutions the world over.  Would you believe that the US M16A2/Canadian C7 is rated the BEST in overall reliability of 5.56 NATO service rifles?

The sound of an "enemy" small arm is quite distinctlve, and tends to draw fire from "friendlies".

Captured small arms ammunition can be unreliable, due to age or poor storage conditions.

The very PROFILE of a universally-recognized small arm used by the bad guys is enough for most soldiers to think ENEMY!!! and in night engagements or poor lighting, is too easy to draw friendly fire.

For all of these reasons, and many more, the use of captured enemy small arms is officially frowned upon.

John

[1911crazy]

I seen an AK take a handful of sand in the reciever and still function flawlessly??  With the history of problems with the m16 I go with the AK.
Our guys need new more reliable weapons maybe we should buy them new russian made AK's since their having money problems we could get them really cheap and both sides can use/share the same ammo.                                                            BigBill        

Our guys in the trucks in Iraq have to have the m16's in plastic bags to keep the and out?  With our military with so many advanced weapons we are stuck with this problematic gun shame on us.  We lost so many of our troops in Vietnam to this gun jamming I wonder how many we lost in Iraq due to weapon problems too.

[Jack Crevalle]

Don't know what the story you read said, but the one I read said that they were using the captured weapons to arm tank crews and other like units who did not usually have enough M16s to arm every man. Now that the fighting does not primarily involve heavy weapons however those troops are being pressed into service as infantry.

It also mentioned that some troops preferred the AK's for urban fighting but that was not the main story.

[crow_feather]

MR TRAVELER,

WHEN YOU HAVE 150 NVA COMMING AT YOU WITH HATE IN THEIR HEARTS, AND YOU HAVE TO PISS ON YOUR M-16 TO COOL THE CHAMBER DOWN SO IT WILL ACCEPT A ROUND (IT WAS A CLEAN RIFLE!),  IT EXPOSES A PART OF YOUR BODY THAT YOU WOULD RATHER NOT HAVE SHOT.  

YOU CAN SAY WHAT YOU WISH ABOUT TESTS AND AWARDS, BUT WHEN A PERSON IS IN HARMS WAY AND HIS ONLY HOPE OF SALVATION SIEZES, THE TRUST IS GONE FORVER.

C F

[John Traveler]

Crow-Feather,

I am well aware of the checkered performance history of the M16's when first issued in VN.  I was in-theatre during that conflict too.  However, that was more than 35 years ago, and the M16A2 and M4 series as they are issued now are WORLDS apart in reliability and function.

As for reliability in sand and dust conditions, NO weapon is designed to be completely reliable when you deliberately pour a fistful of sand into it's open mechanism.  That includes all the weapons in the Russian/Soviet small arms inventory (AKM, RPK, RPD, etc) and the US/NATO inventory.

The troops in Iraq and Afghaistan HAVE learned that they need to keep their weapons in a state of readiness, and that includes daily inspections and cleaning.  Tha harsh operating environment places heavy preventive maintenance demands on soldiers AND equipment.  Whether that equipment is standard small arms or truck and tank engines, or electronic warefare systems, all need effective PM.

I've been involved in extensive small arms reliability testing, and contrary to the popular notion of AK superiority, the current US/Canadian service rifle is among the very BEST.  

As an aside, the Iraeli Defense Forces offically use the 5.56 Galil, a modified Kalashnikov design.  However, have you noticed the vast numbers of M16/AR-15 rifles carried and used by the IDF in the news?  That is NOT becasue the US |Government gives away M16 rifles to foreign allies, but because the IDF considers the M16 to be reliable in sand and desert combat conditions.
 
John

[1911crazy]

In one of the history channels Tales Of the Gun one of the ak stories the showed Mr K himself putting a handful of sand in the open reciever turning the gun over and closing the reciever and firing the gun and it worked.  Hey there is so much crudeness & clearances in these weapons even when I first took my sks's apart to clean it I thought these things can function/fire?  I think the sks is as good as the ak with milled receiver and just as reliable.  I'm still not crazy about stamped sheetmetal guns.  I do have one a Cetme but time will tell for sure.                   BigBill

[Mainspring]

A water cooled M16?  I suppose that some could say that a little bit of fire discipline can go a long way...but I won't say it.      :-D