Polymer tipped bullets in a tube feed??

[ardeekay]

I have a hankering to load some Polymer tipped 125gr or 130gr bullets for use in a Winch. 94 30-30...  before I do this, has anyone else tried this?  Are they flexible enough to NOT detenate the round in front of it??  Someone told be to hold the bullet against a hot surface to flatten it some, but I sorta like the streamlined look of the original.  I have a box of the 'Leverevolutions'.. and they are noticably flexible.  ANY comments of thoughts on this would be welcomed, if I go ahead with this... I will load up some 'dummy' rounds with a real primer, but put in the appropriate weight of sand instead of powder..put a real round in the chamber.. and then tie the rifle to a big tree, and get to the other side and fire it with a string..  Bob

[Bigeasy]

There is a reason 30-30 ammo manufacturers use flat point and round nose bullets, and why flex tip "Lever" ammo was invented.  If you want to experiment with pointy, hard tipped bullets in a model 94, load them single shot.
 
Larry

[Mikey]

Bigeasy is right about why the flex tip bullets were invented but yet I have not heard of or seen a case where a pointed nose round loaded into a tube magazine has detonated the cartridge in front of it.  I am absolutely certain however that someone has or that someone will attribute the detonation of a tube magazine round to the pointed nose of the bullet behind it.
 
However, it is also said that the rounds in a tube magazine do not lay in line with the round ahead of it and the nose of the bullet does not impact against the primer ahead of it, but instead lays against the bottom of the rim.  You can test this for yourself with a few dummy rounds and some magic marker or some of your wife's lipsticks.  Simply coat the rim of the cases with whatever you want to mark it with and load the rounds in behind it - actually, just mark the primer area to see if the round behind it removes some of the marking material you are using.  I'll betcha that the tip of a loaded cartridge does not lay against the primer but rather noses down to lay against the rim.
 
If you are not comfortable with what you see as marks on the rear of the case then don't load any of the 'not so flexible' tip bullets. 
 
There is a reason why the bullets for the old lever action cartridges were flat nosed - the concern over detonating the cartridge ahead of them in a tube magazine is one reason but another is that bullet manufacturers and hunters learned that a flat nosed bullet causes much more damage to the tissue of the game animal you are shooting than does a pointed or round nose bullet. 
 
I would love to hear from anyone who has experienced a detonation of a cartridge in a tube magazine lever action rifle due to the impact of a pointed nose bullet against the primer of the cartridge in front of it.

[Bigeasy]

Hey Mikey.  Never seen it myself.  I remember reading a magazine article years ago where the writer tested several different makes, models of tube fed lever guns, along with assorted pointy bullets.  He did get a magazine detonation with a 45/70, and noted denting to some primers on one of the 30-30 loads.  I believe I read that the reason some guns were designed with spiral tubes was to help off-set bullet tip / primer contact.
 
I'll bet it is rare among pointy bullet users, and would guess that number of rounds in the tube, recoil of the gun, and spring streingth would all be factors.
 
Larry

[Ranger99]

i don't think (to me) it would
be worth any level of risk to
try experimenting with this.
in the real world, not the
magazine gun writer world,
the conventional flat and
round tip bullets by the
current makers do just fine
at reasonable hunting ranges.
to read some of these articles,
the uninitiated might think
that after 100 yards a 30/30
round just makes a 90 degree
turn straight into the ground.
not so. plenty of steam left.
they've been doing it more
than a hundred years. no
need to re-invent the wheel.

[Oldshooter]

I'm with the guys above, I like the gummies from hornady, but thats where I draw the line. There would be no harm in putting pointy tips in a tube though if you just loaded one in the barrel and one in the tube. Thats two shots, for a quick follow up if needed. But like ranger said the rounds and flats do just fine.

[ardeekay]

Thanks to all, I am sorta talked out of it, altho I still like the idea... what got me going, is my experience with the 130 gr. Barnes... I have used this bullet twice, out of a 308, and it was 'bang-flop' with excellent bullet performance.  This was a low end 'starting' load out of the book.  I have some of the 'leverevolutions' and they are going to be tested in my 30-30 in about 3 weeks.. (if the snow melts) when I get my hands on some other brands of poly-tipped bullets, I might see if I can get a primer to fire in an unloaded case by placing the poly tip on the primer and hitting it with a 2x4 or something.. safer that way, and I won't be risking my health or my model 94's health....I considered doing the 2 shot thing... but that defeats the purpose of having lever action repeater.. Bob

[ardeekay]

..End of quest....  I finally got around to some experimenting.... I took a fresh rifle primer,... set it on my bench.... centered a 139gr. SST (red poly tipped) .284 bullet on the center of the primer.... hit the bullet with a short piece of 2x2.... and  POW  !! it fired the primer !! There seems to little if any flex in this bullet tip....   No more of this nonsence for me....  Thanks again to all that listened.. Bob

[Dee]

I've been shootin a Winchester Model 3030 for 55 years and never felt like I needed spitzer type bullets but that ain't the topic. I have heard of a tubuler detonation but never saw one. The ones I heard about from a rifle being dropped or set down too hard on its butt, and these were with spire point bullets.

[SHOOTALL]

there is an article out now that the author said he tossed a zip lock bag of rounds on a table or such and one bullet set another one off. DON'T SEEM TO TAKE MUCH.
 And often pointy bullets made for 308 win or guns with that power level up often are poor choices for 30-30 velocity rounds.

[Oldshooter]

Funny you mention that! I was just reading an article in a gun magazine about a guy tossing a loaded round into a bucket of loaded rounds(looked like 44 mag ) and there were a series of detonations and crap flew around for a bit! 

[SHOOTALL]

Funny you mention that! I was just reading an article in a gun magazine about a guy tossing a loaded round into a bucket of loaded rounds(looked like 44 mag ) and there were a series of detonations and crap flew around for a bit! 

you know it could have been a bucket Layne  ? or other ?

[Oldshooter]

a bucket Layne  ? or other ?

  ?    my blood sugar may be too low to grab that shootall

[SHOOTALL]

a bucket Layne  ? or other ?

  ?    my blood sugar may be too low to grab that shootall

 
sorry , it may have been a bucket that I read about
and was the guys name Layne  something ?

[Oldshooter]

OH! his name was Clint Smith an instructor at Thunder Ranch here in Texas.   His comment included an explanation about his safety requirements on the range and that (Lil faux pas) surprised even him..

[SHOOTALL]

yep ! thanks