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Offline bikerbeans

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Shikari questions
« on: March 12, 2013, 12:11:09 PM »
Hi All,
 
In the last couple of weeks I acquired two Shikaris,   a 24" 44Mag and 28" 45-70.   I have a couple of questions;
The 45-70 barrel is completely devoid of any markings.  None, nada.  No manufacturer name, caliber ID or anything.  Barrel doesn't appear to be refinished.  Built on Monday morning or was this common practice "back in the day"?  Gun is 1974 vintage and I am sure it is a factory barrel because I had to shim it. ::)
On the 44Mag I have run out of elevation adjustment with the little flip up rear sight.  I need to raise POI, so are there any shorter front sights available that look like the original or do I need to break out the file?  I like the flip up rear sight so I don't want to replace it and a chamber swell peep would require a d/t, which I can do but I don't want to mess with the barrel.
thanks
 
BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline wolverine_1

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Re: Shikari questions
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2013, 01:03:37 PM »
If the .45-70 has no markings, what makes you think it is a Shikari and not a Handi Rifle barrel? I've had two .45-70 Shikaris (& still have one) and both were marked as such on the barrels.  When you say you had to shim it does that mean you got a barrel and are putting it on a handi rifle?  You may need to add pictures to get help on id'ing that one. gene
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Shikari questions
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2013, 01:31:31 PM »
Maybe it wasn't marked as a Shikari because it didn't come on one, possibly an accessory barrel, BB?  ???

Gene, a modern barrel would be drilled and tapped for a scope rail(or peep), it would also have a welded underlug instead of silver soldered.  ;)

Tim
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Shikari questions
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2013, 02:30:26 PM »
I am fairly sure it is a Shikari barrel because it has the thimble for the cleaning rod, which it also has with it.  The barrel is 28" long, so did H&R ever offer a 28" 45-70 access. barrel with a thimble?  The underlug is also silver soldered as is the fore stock lug so the method of construction is consistent with a 1974 H&R firearm. 
The receiver is a 1974 (no t-bar 8) ) so that puts it in the window of Shikari production.   It has a shikari stock set including the barrel band and the forestock is setup for a cleaning rod, not a ramrod.  It looks almost identical to the 44mag shikari I have,  just for some reason the barrel was not stamped.   Probably an end of shift barrel/gun. 
I had to shim this barrel because it was slightly loose with the forestock removed.  This is not an uncommon problem with either old or new H&Rs. :P 
If this gun had a ramrod instead of a cleaning rod then I might have suspected someone reaming out a 45cal MZ barrel.  But it they did they are real pros because the ejector system installation is perfect.  Having converted 50 cal Huntsmans to 50-70 govts I know modifying an MZ underlug for a factory ejector system ain't easy.
I will try and get pics up if I can talk my teenager into taking them.  Me and cameras don't get along.
 
BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline wolverine_1

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Re: Shikari questions
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2013, 02:44:29 PM »
Ok, must be a shikari.  I bought a Huntsman (old style .58) some years ago which was loose as you describe.  May not apply to yours, but the pivot pin was bent from overloads.  I had the pin replaced and now it locks up as it should.  Only cost me $15 to get the pin replaced.  You might want to look at the pin just to be sure that isn't what has happened to your Shikari.  Good luck.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: Shikari questions
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2013, 02:49:14 PM »
Oh, how sweet BB!
IIRC the flip up on my old 44M was a Lyman or looked like a Lyman and they came in several heights, std. nominal 3/8 DT.
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22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Shikari questions
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2013, 05:20:41 PM »
The lettering over the chamber on mine is pretty shallow....... I wonder if someone polished it off?
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Shikari questions
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2013, 01:31:03 AM »
Quote from: wolverine_1 on March 12, 2013, 02:44:29 PM
Ok, must be a shikari.  I bought a Huntsman (old style .58) some years ago which was loose as you describe.  May not apply to yours, but the pivot pin was bent from overloads.  I had the pin replaced and now it locks up as it should.  Only cost me $15 to get the pin replaced.  You might want to look at the pin just to be sure that isn't what has happened to your Shikari.  Good luck.

Bent pin with a silver soldered underlug!?!  I would be curious how the pin was bent since the is virually no breech thrust on a muzzleloader. ???
 
BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Shikari questions
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2013, 01:46:52 AM »
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 12, 2013, 05:20:41 PM
The lettering over the chamber on mine is pretty shallow....... I wonder if someone polished it off?
Joe,
 
I looked with a magnifying glass and can't see anything on top of the chamber swell.  Doesn't look refinished but ya never know.  I prefer to look at it like a coin than has been mis-printed by the US Mint, it has got to be worth tons at auction! ::)
 
You are right on the cast bullets and the older 45-70 barrels.  Shooting Lee 405HBs (ww lead) off-hand over 700x or Unique into a 3/4 hole at 25 yards with my bad eyes and the crude front sight.  The offhand groups opened up a bit at 50 yards but I only had 1" bullseyes and I they then to "cloak" on me at that distance. :'(
 
Blake,
 
A newer rear sight was about $30 with freight.  Numrich has the original front sight for about $3 plus freight so a replacement is available if needed.  I got out my file and went to work on the front sight.  With 240g LSWC over just below a max. charge of AA9, the 44 now shoots as well or better as the 45-70 .   I see why you miss you 44 Shikari. ;)
 
BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline wolverine_1

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Re: Shikari questions
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2013, 02:15:16 AM »
"Bent pin with a silver soldered underlug!?!  I would be curious how the pin was bent since the is virually no breech thrust on a muzzleloader. ???  BB"
I have always assumed over loads. It is the kind with the push in breach plug, so overloads would put force on the pin as the breach plug tried to moved back against the receiver while the barrel and ball tried to move forward.  Course you know about assumptions.
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Shikari questions
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2013, 03:28:50 AM »
Quote from: wolverine_1 on March 16, 2013, 02:15:16 AM
"Bent pin with a silver soldered underlug!?!  I would be curious how the pin was bent since the is virually no breech thrust on a muzzleloader. ???  BB"
I have always assumed over loads. It is the kind with the push in breach plug, so overloads would put force on the pin as the breach plug tried to moved back against the receiver while the barrel and ball tried to move forward.  Course you know about assumptions.

Gene,
 
 
You are correctd Sir, I forgot about the push in plug, I was thinking about a screw in one.  Maybe a previous owner tried smokeless in your 58? :o   I am impressed with the strength of the underlug if the pin will bend and the lug will stay put.  Makes me feel better about the the soldered underlug handis that I have.
 
BB
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RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline gcrank1

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Re: Shikari questions
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2013, 03:57:19 AM »
I know mine survived high pressure, I made MAX 44 Mag loads back then since I had Ruger's Super Blackhawk and then Redhawk revolvers (and didnt know any better....).
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"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974
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