17 hornet, erratic velocities????

[scooter1979]

Hey guys,
      Id like to get your alls input on my hornet velocites....Ive worked up a few loads with lil gun and 20gr vmax. Ive settled on a load of 9.7gr, seemd to give the best accuracy during my trial loads. I loaded up a batch of 12 and went to the range.  Id averaged in the 3500-3600 range during my trial loads.  My 1st 2 shots this trip were 3350 and 3501....after that they went up into the 3550-3700 range.  Was just curious as to why the big jump in speed.  I do put a thin coat of oil in my barrels after I clean them. Could that have caused it...out of the 12rds my ES was around 350....but if you take out those 1st 2 shots its much better.  Smallest cases I've loaded prior to this is 222 and 223.  I know with these small cases it doesn't take much to change things., but that seemed awfully extreme to me.  I don't have all my exact numbers handy as Im at work but if you need more info Ill gladly post after I get home.  Id consider trying another powder but the only thing I have at home is IMR4198 and H-110 but im not too sure how well those would work.
Thanks for the input guys
Scooter

[LaOtto222]

I found the same thing when I worked up loads for the 22 Hornet. Lil'Gun gave me erratic pressures/velocities. I had as much as 400 fps difference between shots in some cases with primers that were punchered and some times, severely stretched cases. Accuracy was not good either. I ended up using small pistol primers and W296 (H110) for my loads and have not looked back.

Good Luck and Good Shooting

[scooter1979]

Hmm....that's interesting, so maybe its not just me lol. Is there any particular reason you used small pistol primers? I don't have any of those, only a couple brands of small rifle.  Id read quite a bit of good stuff about lil gun with respect to accuracy and velocity,  that's the reason I chose it to begin with.  Ive not measured my cases yet so I cant comment on the length, but I should get to measure them today.  Looks like I may give the 110 a shot. 
Thanx for the input
Scooter

[LaOtto222]

I used Speer loading data. In their latest manual, they used a CCI small pistol primer for their loads with all loads for the 22 Hornet. I tried a beginning load of W296 with their smallest bullet. The bullet I used was 1 grain heavier, so that is why I went with a minum charge. I think they used a 33 grain bullet and I used a 34 grain bullet. It worked fine and I got good/consistent velocity too. I used the same load for my 22K Hornet, but bumped the powder .4 grains and it worked good too. Do not use this data in your 17; I used 12.4 grains for the 22 Hornet and 12.8 grains in the 22K Hornet. Speer also warned that if you use a small rifle primer, to cut back the powder charge as it will be too high. Just be careful about cutting H110 back too much, seriously high pressures could be seen. They call it detonation.

I laid in a GOOD supply of all primers after the '08 shortage.

Good Luck and Good Shooting

[YRUpunting?]

The reason for small pistol primers is you just don't need much to ignite the powder in the 22 hornet's small case.  The other advantage is they are much softer than SR primers so pressure signs should be more easily noticed.

Try Rem 6 1/2 they're about like a SP primer with a thicker jacket.  The 7 1/2's are too hot for the 22 hornet.

[scooter1979]

Thanks for the help guys....I did try some H110 and had much more consistent results, in the few rounds I tried.  I only had 8 pieces of new brass left.  I wanted to use those before I resized my batch of brass.  I had 2, 3 shot groups and 1 2 shot group.  I know that's a really small amount of data but my groups were good (both 3shot groups were in the .7s and my 2 shot group was in the .5s).  My velocities were in the 3400 range.  I still have about a half grain to work with. They were all consistent, I think my ES was about 50.  Far better than the lil gun! Can't wait to load up some more to take to the range!
Thanx again for the help guys
Scooter

[alan in ga]

I've got over 6,000 rounds of 17 Ackley Hornet through one barrel. I've had 2 17AHs which is as much 'like' the 17Hornady as you can get.
From what I have read I would never use Lil Gun in it or the Hornady version.
1680 works so fantastically well that I don't know why anyone would not use it. It leaves some black powder residue but it seems to work as a lube as Moly does. Friends that go with me to Montana with their 17AHs also use 1680. A few use N120 and it seems to be the 'other great 17AH powder'.....if you can find it.

[scooter1979]

I can't wait to try 1680, just can't get my hands on any right now...have heard nothing but good about it, in the accuracy and speed department.
Thanx for the input!
Scooter

[cooper]

I had the same problems some of the others mentioned with Lil'Gun in the 22 Hornet.  Veolcity spreads of over 300 fps, although I did not get case stretching or pierced primers or anything like that.
 
What solved it was a small pistol primer, ALONG WITH the Lee Factory Crimp (LFC) die.  Neither the small pistol primer nor the LFC die by itself worked - I needed both of them.  Lil'Gun is  now my favorite powder in the 22 Hornet.
 
I don't think Lee makes a LFC die for any 17 caliber, but another type of crimp die may work.   
 
BTW - I normally use Rem 6 1/2 small rifle primers in my 22 Hornet, but they were no better than a regular small rifle primer.  I had to go to small pistol primers (I used Winchester SP).