Author Topic: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(  (Read 1732 times)

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Offline gypsyman

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2013, 03:38:11 AM »
Real hard to lower the price when govt. keeps adding more tax's to it. At the pump, shipping, drilling,refining, etc. The govt. is looking at gas the same way as cigarette's. Lets subsidize the tobacco farmers,(oil company's), and tax the crap out of them on the finished product. Keep the cash cow alive, then the govt. can skim their percentage off. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2013, 03:41:21 AM »
Yep, the feds get $400 billion off gasoline and diesel taxes, as well as taxes off oil and drilling every year.  However they only spend $200 billion on highways, the rest is used somewhere else, welfare maybe or foreign aid. 

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2013, 08:35:30 AM »
No, this is happening in spite of Obama.  Almost all the natural gas found the last few years has been on PRIVATE property.  Also, Obama and the EPA are requiring coal to cut emissions of CO2 either by clean coal technology, solar or wind (subsitys to failed solar companies).  He has given NO money to natural gas companies.  It just happens to be the only cheap option for power companies.  I, working for the gas industry, think power generation is a waste of natural gas energy.  We should use nuclear for power production, especially thorium nuke plants.  Then use the natural gas to  power our vehicles.  Cleaner air all the way around and better use of technology.  The subsities he paid for solar could have jump started thorium reactor plants.  Very little waste, and a short half life in weeks instead of years, and you can't make bombs from thorium. 

Offline vabeachman

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2013, 08:51:15 AM »
Drilling on private land is best.  Royalties go to landowners,  When the government gets the royalties they start new programs.  When the wells dry up, the programs will still need to be funded.  So guess what, either higher taxes or more debt.  I like the idea of thorium also.
When a boot is on your throat does it matter if is the right boot or left boot?

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2013, 12:14:51 PM »
MCWD...Nowadays I see the governmnet as part and parcel partners with big corps, when formerly in our history they weren't,,,and in fact, incorporating in one of a few structures is actually a partnership with the governmnet...That's called 'Corporatism'.  And formally this wasn't allowed; in fact, our own Revolution was primarily to kick corps out of the country and end their tyrannical control of society and economy....that's called freedom.
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..TM7
So you are saying that Government is corupt, that it is too big and too powerful?  Everthing you have been saying up to this point is that government protects us from evil profit seeking companies and that we needed the government bigger, stronger, and creating more regulations to control the greedy companies.  Now you are saying that the government is in parner ship with the greedy corporations and we need to take away both of their powers by making government smaller and allowing free enterprise to flurish and small business take over. 
I think you are finally comming around that Deregulation is a good thing, that smaller government is healthy government, that ellected officials are out for them selves and not there to be a benevolant parent to you, and that smaller government is less coruptable.
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No--nope!  Just your righty interpolations trying to use me as your foil for your agenda to again permit/justify corpo elite to run off with the class picnic basket.. Foregetabouit.. Everything I've said up to this point is: gov is corrupt in a partnership with corps in a war against Citizens and fair systems, and the GOP and DNC are on the same side; and we need proper fair governmnet and proper and fair regulation to end corruption and fraud; and this most likely requires getting rid of corporate bought and paid for politicians who fill the ranks of the GOP and DNC Duopoly...and even to nationalize certain industries for a while such as the Fuel industry to end the corpo tyranny and lockdown on America.  Since you are a little left of the current DNC why not start your own party and get ellected and change the constitution in stead of following it.  The constitution was written that way becasue words mean things and sentenances mean things, I find it odd that many on the left do not agree with the constitution and work to undermine it and change it  but then scream about the rights in it  and how they are allowed to say the things that are against it.
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Why would anybody want to further unlease Corpo fascist in America when they've caused most all the problems we have in the first place in most every sector,,,banking, energy, healthcare, housing, debt,,you name it.? Why would any one trust a government that can give and take everything from you?  From Healthcare to housing to education to work place
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Its really very very simple....We-the-People can have the kind of society and economy and opportunity we want and create, without putting it entirely in the hands of elitist, pirates, swindlers, egotists and various and assundried greedy corpocrats.
.OK let me see if I get this right, You say a protion of the population is corupt?  If that portion of people that are corupt is part of the pop[ulation we can assume that it is accross the board and all walks of life are subject to being corupt? 
If that is true than you would want a smaller government with less money.  If we have 10 million people working at the government from local to federal and 3% are corrupt then we will have 300,000 corupt or coruptable people in government.  If we cut that number of government employees down to 100,000 then we only have 3,000 people to look out for, find out that they are curupt and jail them for taking bribes or other crimes.  Finding 3,000 and punishing them is a lot easier than finding the 300,000 crooks that (if we assume you are correct and all business people from small to global coroprations) are corupt and will try to corupt the government then we have less of a chance that they find some one coruptable and we can eliminate them from the public trust.
I indersatand you want to eliminate all companies from small to global and put the trust in the government but what would then stop the almost coruptable from becoming corupt as they gain total power?  We have seen it in the Soviet Union over the 70 years it was set up, we havbe seen the coruption in the Cuban government over it's 50 years, and we have seen it in the rest of the communist and dictator world where the people live in or near poverty and the leaders are multi Billionaires. 
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...TM7

Offline ironglow

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2013, 04:43:13 AM »
  Twoblocked says;
  " The U.S. is increasing its oil production faster than ever, and American  drivers are guzzling less gas. But you'd never know it from the price at the  pump.
 
The national average price of gasoline is $3.69 per gallon and forecast to  creep higher, possibly approaching $4 by May."
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 
  So what are you saying 2B ?  Do you think if we drilled LESS..gas prices would go down ?  DUH!!
 
 We are drilling somewhat more, because of leases put into effect toward the end of the Bush admin..  Democ-rats will not agree to more drilling even if the price reaches $10 per gallon.  Here, Mitch Mcconnell tries to find a price which would "trigger" reopened drilling.."how about $10 per gallon"..the Dems say "NO"!   McConnell questions Ken Salazar, Obama's secretary of the interior:
       
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0FcNNeuf0E&feature=player_embedded
 
It doesn't matter if we had oil running bout our ears..the Obama bots would still jury rig things around, trying to keep the price high!  Obama's first secretary of energy, Steven Chu wanted our gas to cost at least $8 , if not more..  Here Chu is quizzed upon his desire for high gas prices.  Note; he doesn't deny it, nor does he answer the question..he just goes on to blather about "windpower" and "bioenergy".   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88tRu5WLI38
 
 
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2013, 04:50:36 AM »
Most of the frack drilling started in Bush's last two years when gasoline/oil prices started to rise.  It takes 3-10 years from contract signing on someones property to actually drilling and coming on line.  So, like I said, this is happening in spite of Obama on private property.  Actual new contracts and drilling starts are way down because of the flood of gas found the last 5-7 years on private property.  Obama might want to claim credit, but he didn't have anything to do with it.  This is all private.  Now, getting the pipelines built to carry all this is another matter.  He is hindering pipeline construction big time with the EPA.  Not just the oil but ALL pipelines.  Obama spent all the energy departments stimulus money on solar companies, many of whom have gone bankrupt and/or moved to China.  If he had spent this on jumpstarting thorium reactor construction, we would be on our way to clean nuke power that is safe.  Solar only works in the daytime, and it only works efficiently where there is abundant sunshine (Southwest US) not where most people live.  Wind is abundant in the plains states and is already being developed slowly.  Nukes are going to have to eventually be used east of the Mississippi where there is not enough sun and wind to produce abundant electricity.  Thus the converson to natural gas.
 
Like I said, gas should be used for vehicles.  It is the only viable alternative that is cost effective to gasoline.  Same engine, compressed tank cost is offset by not having to use catylitic converters, thus less costly than hybrids.  It can be quick filled in about 15 minutes unlike 5-8 hours for electric vehicles.  Has more power and greater range than electric vehicles.  We can thus eliminate imported fuel keeping all money here to stimulate our economy, not some middle eastern economy. 
 
I also think financing for homes by Fannie and Freddie should only be for semi underground home in hillsides, thus cutting power/gas use in half.  This would also save the flat lands for farmland.  This is the most cost effective construction for new homes with the quickest results.  Also, 2x6 outside walls should be built on all new homes with outside foam insulation instead of fiberglass.  R value is more than double thus cutting power/gas use.  Lots of easy simple things can be done. 
 
By allowing drilling on government leased land and more in Alaska, you create more jobs, and get us less dependent on imports.  Even if some is exported as a trade, it still gives us leverage and more money coming into America than is leaving. 
 
If we applied tarriffs to Chinese goods as a cost add on to cover EPA, and American labor laws, and safety laws, there would be a 40% increase in the cost of their goods.  Maybe if someone got the courage to do this, our factories would eventually come back and put us back to work, and bring money back to America. 
 
I've also heard that Chinese workers are demanding more pay and their pay is increasing, so some factories are now moving to SE Asia and to India.  There is talk of eventually moving some to Africa the next source of abundant cheap labor. 

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2013, 05:45:34 AM »
Nat gas prices are down substantially. My monthly bill has gone from ~ $90 to ~ $45 in the past few years. This despite more and more electrical generation sourced from nat gas.


America will have to change the way they think about range between fill ups if nat gas is to become a motor fuel. Secondly a major infrastructure change must happen.


I feel that the best flex fuel option at this time would be a nat gas / gasoline fueled vehicle. Simple fact is that nat gas is not readily available everywhere. For those who have easy accessibility, you would still be able to fuel on the east coast or in a rural area far from a pipeline. I am not willing to own a car that is only good for commuting to work. I can't be alone here. A 6-8 gallon gasoline tank and the equivalent in natural gas for instance.


The quickest way to get the ball rolling would be to suspend road fuel tax for natural gas. Demand would sky rocket and nothing drives supply like demand. I would predict in 5 years taxes could be slowly implemented to rise over the next ten years to match gasoline taxes. That is a 15 year phase in period, with that sort of incentive I believe it would largely take care of itself and need little government intervention or subsidy.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2013, 05:49:27 AM »
  We could have much lower prices on natural gas.. if it weren't for the anti-frac idiots..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2013, 06:11:54 AM »
Our new trucks have about 150-200 mile natural gas range.  Problem is getting service stations to install the compressors for refueling.  They need a space of about an 8' x 40' for compressor and hp storage tanks which costs about $100,000.  Once installed, one can refuel for in about 15 minutes and with a range of 150-200 miles, one can refuel every 2 hours if they were crossing the country which is what they recommend stopping every 2 hours for leg stretching and bathroom breaks anyway.  Diesel/natural gas tractor trailors can have extended range of about 2,000 miles with strap under tanks on the trailers.  Now that is a long range.  Natural gas companies are trying to get stations in every medium to large city near interstates to install them.  Once an infrastructure is in place like that with a station about every 100 miles then it is more realistic.  Our vehicles coming off the assembly line at Ford and GM only cost about $1,000-1,200 more than a gas only.  They do use either gasoline or natural gas.  With natural gas only, the price would drop to about the same as gasoline only.  If the infrastructure was in place, UPS, Fedex, the Postal service, many cities, counties, bus systems would convert.  This would cut imports drastically.  It would hurt the oil companies unless they are involved in drilling for natural gas also. 

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2013, 06:25:26 AM »
That is why I say we must increase the demand. The outlay by a service station is huge.


Those who benefit through lower fuel costs would by and large pay for the investment the filling stations incur. If the cost per mile were lower by a few cents nat gas could take off on its own. The spread could be used to pay off the tanks and pumps. Early adapters would benefit by having a period of no tax liability, quickly paying for the investment. Johnny come lately types could have the higher volume of an adapted technology.


I like the ability to fill at home albeit slowly. Again for a long time it is going to be a niche market thing I'm afraid. I live in the fly over country, for us it would be much simpler. East coast might never be a good option. So what? If the midwest never used a drop of gasoline that could only benefit those who cannot get nat gas. The flex option would insure the car could be used and sold anywhere.
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Offline vabeachman

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2013, 06:26:24 AM »
Natural gas is now around $4/MMbtu. Natural gas at its peak high was $13/MMbtu..  Went to a low of $2/MMbtu.   They quit drilling and moved all the rigs to Ohio to drill for wet distillates.  Now the drillers are mostly in Texas drilling for oil.  I don't like natural gas will get any cheaper. 
When a boot is on your throat does it matter if is the right boot or left boot?

Offline vabeachman

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2013, 06:33:59 AM »
Lots of NG along East Coast.  The Marcellus shale formation, is mostly in PA.  Pipelines all over the place.
When a boot is on your throat does it matter if is the right boot or left boot?

Offline vabeachman

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2013, 06:50:14 AM »
CNG in A BOX
When a boot is on your throat does it matter if is the right boot or left boot?

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2013, 07:27:55 AM »
Lots of NG along East Coast.  The Marcellus shale formation, is mostly in PA.  Pipelines all over the place.
Why is heating oil so prevalent? I was under the impression gas was not readily available.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2013, 07:56:13 AM »
 While gas lines are prevelent in the urban areas, in the rural areas the people are using propane and fuel oil.  Up until a few years ago fuel oil was cheap.  So there was no reason to change.  Now it's cost prohibitive to install the gas lines and those folks are paying through the nose. 

Here in Alaska we were promised a gas line to follow the oil line.  That never happened.  Fuel oil was cheap so no cared.  Today it's no longer cheap, and many folks have moved out of state due to the high cost of heating their homes.  We still don't have a gas line, with all the gas on the north slope being burned off at the wells instead of being piped to us.
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Offline vabeachman

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2013, 08:01:36 AM »
Lack of demand for Natural Gas years ago in rural areas.  Coal or Fuel oil was cheaper.  Low population density,  fuel oil furnaces, cheapest way to heat up until late 1990s. I used to get it for 29 cents/gallon. NGas lines for residential use are still not widely available in rural areas (which is really most of NE).  Fuel oil slowing being phased out though.  Too expensive.  Some peoples' were smart enough to have the energy company put in a line from main pipeline right to their house and now get free nat. gas, not me. 
When a boot is on your throat does it matter if is the right boot or left boot?

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2013, 07:14:52 AM »
TM7,
Maybe I should use smaller words and shorter sentenances do you will understand and can learn.
You are all over the map wiht your conspericy theories. 
Either the government is too big and in bed with the capitalist or they are not,
Getting rid of the latter will not fix the problems you say in the former. 
You can not yell about deregulation and then say that the government is in bed with the capitailists, when the regulations are was to stop free markets or true capitalism.

Offline vabeachman

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Re: Drill Baby Drill- it's not working too good at lowering prices :(
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2013, 12:14:41 PM »
TM7, Those prices are crazy high.  Sounds like you got a problem with you local providers. Most places the residential gas lines are by Local Utilities.  You are right about no real competition, but there probably wouldn't be any NG if each and every energy company had to have separate lines.  Your public utility is putting the screws to you.  Last year NG never got about $3/MMbtu. 
When a boot is on your throat does it matter if is the right boot or left boot?