Freedom Arms .454

[greenrivers]

I attended an informal gathering of friends to do some target shooting last weekend, so I gathered up some odds and ends of ammo to shoot up. Thirty or more of these rounds were purchased heat treated hard cast 300 gr. .452 that had been given to me by a relative. These were pushed by Unique at 1450fps. What a mess! It looked like they slid half way down the bore before engaging the lands! I checked the bullets and they mike at .452. My throats and bore are both .453. Freedom Arms recomends not using soft bullets do to forcing cone damage. If this is too hard, where does the correct BHN fall? Thanks for any help.

[Hairy Chest]

Get a BFR. It will be the correct dimensions. 

[yooper77]

I attended an informal gathering of friends to do some target shooting last weekend, so I gathered up some odds and ends of ammo to shoot up. Thirty or more of these rounds were purchased heat treated hard cast 300 gr. .452 that had been given to me by a relative. These were pushed by Unique at 1450fps. What a mess! It looked like they slid half way down the bore before engaging the lands! I checked the bullets and they mike at .452. My throats and bore are both .453. Freedom Arms recomends not using soft bullets do to forcing cone damage. If this is too hard, where does the correct BHN fall? Thanks for any help.

Its not the revolvers fault, its the hardness of the bullet (too soft is my guess), or your load or combination. I would contact Freedom Arms as they are the only experts on their firearms.

What is the real brinell hardness number of these bullets and who was the bullet manufacture? Also what was the powder charge, primer and was a heavy roll crimped used? Did your relative reload them?

Do you have any factory hard cast ammo to shoot for comparison?

Freedom Arms model 83 factory single action revolvers are truly the best above all others, so you cannot improve on the revolver.

yooper77

[Hairy Chest]

I attended an informal gathering of friends to do some target shooting last weekend, so I gathered up some odds and ends of ammo to shoot up. Thirty or more of these rounds were purchased heat treated hard cast 300 gr. .452 that had been given to me by a relative. These were pushed by Unique at 1450fps. What a mess! It looked like they slid half way down the bore before engaging the lands! I checked the bullets and they mike at .452. My throats and bore are both .453. Freedom Arms recomends not using soft bullets do to forcing cone damage. If this is too hard, where does the correct BHN fall? Thanks for any help.

Its not the revolvers fault, its the hardness of the bullet (too soft is my guess), or your load or combination. I would contact Freedom Arms as they are the only experts on their firearms.

What is the real brinell hardness number of these bullets and who was the bullet manufacture? Also what was the powder charge, primer and was a heavy roll crimped used? Did your relative reload them?

Do you have any factory hard cast ammo to shoot for comparison?

Freedom Arms model 83 factory single action revolvers are truly the best above all others, so you cannot improve on the revolver.

yooper77

If it is the "best",  I would expect Freedom to check the dimensions and make it correct.  What is the advantage to having a larger than normal bore?   

[greenrivers]

Hairy Chest, THAT'L BE THE DAY!
Why trade in a Mecedes for a Volkes Wagon? This is the first pb bullet tried and as mentioned above it was a heat treated cast plain base. It did not gas cut, it skidded as I pushed it too hard is my guess. A softer bullet in 300 gr. is very accurate as are the jacketed that I have shot.
 

[yooper77]

This is the first pb bullet tried and as mentioned above it was a heat treated cast plain base. It did not gas cut, it skidded as I pushed it too hard is my guess. A softer bullet in 300 gr. is very accurate as are the jacketed that I have shot.
 

I agree you are pushing the plain base bullet too fast.

yooper77

[Hairy Chest]

Hairy Chest, THAT'L BE THE DAY!
Why trade in a Mecedes for a Volkes Wagon? This is the first pb bullet tried and as mentioned above it was a heat treated cast plain base. It did not gas cut, it skidded as I pushed it too hard is my guess. A softer bullet in 300 gr. is very accurate as are the jacketed that I have shot.

What test yardage? 

[greenrivers]

As this is a new member to the team, I have not had a lot of bench time with it. But I have spent some time at 25, 50 and 100 yard informal shooting. It has proven itself. But being aflicted with an incurable need to own and use every brand and configuration of caliber available before I end this round, I will not degrade any. Including the BFR. It is my understanding that they are fine revolvers and I have handled my friends 45/70, though it is yet unfired. That needs to be cured!
All comments are in fun and I hope taken that way.

[Lloyd Smale]

1450 with unique!!!! thats one harry load. Way to fast for unique. probably lucky you had a gun as well made and strong as a FA

[Hairy Chest]

As this is a new member to the team, I have not had a lot of bench time with it. But I have spent some time at 25, 50 and 100 yard informal shooting. It has proven itself. But being aflicted with an incurable need to own and use every brand and configuration of caliber available before I end this round, I will not degrade any. Including the BFR. It is my understanding that they are fine revolvers and I have handled my friends 45/70, though it is yet unfired. That needs to be cured!
All comments are in fun and I hope taken that way.

You say it shoots good with jacketed bullets, but you haven't convinced me.   I know with a .453 "bore" you have problems. Good luck with the Mercedes!   

[TommyD]

Pushing a 300 grain cast plain base bullet to 1400 fps with Unique may not be the best choice.

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition gives data for the 300 grain Saeco #454 gas check bullet cast from Lyman #2 alloy.
The top end load with Unique gives a velocity of 1274 fps.
The top end loads  with H110 and accurate #9 give a velocity of over 1400 fps.
The pressures range from 43400 to 44400 CUP for all three powders.

If you are driving a cast plain base bullet to 1400 with Unique, God only knows what the pressure might be. Even though it might be within within the capacity of your revolver, it may be well beyond the compressive strength of your lead bullet.

Try a slower powder before blaming the gun. If that fails, try a gas check bullet.
And of course stay within loading recommendations published by industry standard sources.
At 454 Casull pressures, you can't use jacketed bullet data for cast bullets. Cast bullets just can't stand that kind of pressure.

[greenrivers]

Please excuse the blunder! The 300 was pushed by 24.5 gr. or 2400. The plain base will be pushed by Unique. Should have checked before and not used a memory that no longer exists.

[gypsyman]

greenrivers, I know that the Freedom Arms in .44 I had, didn't like cast bullets that much. Shot jacketed like a laser. Friend of mine has one in .41mag, and in .357. Both shoot cast very well. The rifleing didn't seem deep enough to bite in on the .44 I had for cast bullets. Had the same problem with a Marlin 1895 in .44. The micro-groove barrel just did not like any of the cast bullets I tried, so sold it. Same as the FA. Good Luck. gypsyman

[Hairy Chest]

Mercedes also has problems.

http://www.mercedes-benz-usa.com/