Author Topic: Doing It In the Dark!  (Read 1629 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BamBams

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
Doing It In the Dark!
« on: February 15, 2004, 08:11:43 PM »
A few of us guys are getting ready to brave the cold and go out at night with our 1911s to practice shooting in the dark.  Flashlights will be allowed.  I just can't wait!

What are some other good ways to practice defense shooting?  Any ideas?
NRA Handgun Instructor

Offline VTDW

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 523
    • http://www.geocities.com/vtdw336/great_outdoors.html
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2004, 01:23:15 AM »
You could always go to some of the nightclubs in da hood around 2 a.m. :)

Sorry Bams I just couldn't help myself,

Dave :-)
www.marlinowners.com
How did I get over the hill without getting to the top?

http://photobucket.com/albums/v354/vtdw1/

Offline Dali Llama

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2452
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2004, 02:07:23 AM »
Quote from: VTDW
You could always go to some of the nightclubs in da hood around 2 a.m. :)

AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline BamBams

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2004, 03:24:12 PM »
Dave, I just don't know where we'd be without your unique sense of humor sometimes.  :twisted:
NRA Handgun Instructor

Offline Red Neck64

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 136
Re: Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2004, 03:25:27 PM »
Quote from: BamBams
A few of us guys are getting ready to brave the cold and go out at night with our 1911s to practice shooting in the dark.  Flashlights will be allowed.  I just can't wait!

What are some other good ways to practice defense shooting?  Any ideas?

A light will do you no good!When a man wants to kill you he will!Your ears and nose in the night are your eyes!Don't look for someone to shoot,you just might find him!

Offline dread

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 134
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2004, 04:13:15 AM »
:? Why?  :?

Offline tubbythetuba

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 150
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2004, 04:29:24 PM »
Quote from: dread
:? Why?  :?


If it was light, they wouldn't have excuses for missing?
That Sound You Hear In The Woods While Hunting  Is Deer Laughing

Offline Major

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 516
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2004, 05:28:14 PM »
I would shoot without light.   Adding to what Red Neck64 said about your ears and nose in the night are your eyes!   Also use your brain, and eyes too.

When I was in the Army… in the days before “Nightvision Scopes” we would practice in total dark.   Of course, it is never totally dark once your eyes adjust.   I found out that if I waited until the guys around me would shoot, they would kick up enough dust around the targets for me to see mine faintly.   I scored 16 hits out of 16 shots with my M-14.   Think about what is around you that you can use to your advantage, there will be things there if you think about it.

If you are in a real firefight you don’t want to use a flashlight, that just makes a target for your adversary.   :excuseme:
Deactivated as trouble maker

Offline BamBams

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2004, 06:07:31 PM »
Gents.

Think about it.  You're at home in bed, and you awake to the sound of shattering glass at 2:00 a.m..

Are you going to turn on the lights?  I sure wouldn't!

Sooooooooo.....if you need to shoot, you're gonna shoot in the dark right?

Now, if you've never shot in the dark before, and your nerves are already on edge, your adrenalin is pumping like crazy........

Are you ready to deal with the muzzle flash?  How are you going to positively ID your target?  Have you practiced aiming under these conditions? and so on and so on and so on.....

The goal here is to obtain "some" experience beforehand......however limited it may be....

Dave, sorry about the "gent" thing.....hehehehe
NRA Handgun Instructor

Offline Major

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 516
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2004, 06:57:26 PM »
Quote from: BamBams
 How are you going to positively ID your target?  


Again, going back to my Army training.   Unless we were already in a firefight we were taught to positively ID your target.   How?   Well, you have a voice don’t you?  

Make sure you are where you are out of any possible line of fire then say “Halt or I will shoot.”    If it is your kid that will give them a chance to ID themselves.   If your challenge is met with a shot you will not be standing there like a dummy and you can prove you fired in self-defense when you do shoot.  If the intruder keeps coming, you have had a chance to take control and it is the intruder that has his heart in his throat.   If the intruder turns and runs, then you call the police, it becomes their problem and you are safe.

Be safe out there, it is a dangerous world we live in.    :money:
Deactivated as trouble maker

Offline dread

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 134
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2004, 04:43:20 AM »
Hmm... Never thought about all that. Just figured if someone is breaking in , they don't have a key. So I'd consider the person breaking in as an intruder wishing to commit suicide. No one better try to break into my house. They will get cured of all their ailments quickly and effectively.

Offline Red Neck64

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 136
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2004, 05:42:26 AM »
Friendly fire mishaps at nighe are common,when fighting at night.You could take one from your buddy.

Offline Major

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 516
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2004, 04:19:34 PM »
Quote from: dread
Hmm... Never thought about all that. Just figured if someone is breaking in , they don't have a key. So I'd consider the person breaking in as an intruder wishing to commit suicide. No one better try to break into my house. They will get cured of all their ailments quickly and effectively.


Years ago my son came home drunk, let himself in with a key and then knocked over a lamp.     From all the noise I thought  someone was breaking in.     Sure glad I didn't shoot first!    :roll:
Deactivated as trouble maker

Offline Camp Cook

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 683
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2004, 04:48:13 PM »
What about the tactical lights systems that are now out that mount to the rail under the front of the semi-auto handguns. I have a 3rd gen Glock 20 10mm that has the rail mount and I also purchased one of Wild West Guns tactical light mount that attaches to the tube under the barrel of my Marlin 1895GS 45-70 rifle. I have a Glock tactical light that fits both mounts. I use these systems when I am hiking after dark in remote wilderness areas or in camp against wild animals. Sure makes it easy to see the target and my sights!
Cam
<")))><

"A gun is a tool, Marian. No better, no worse than any other tool. An axe, a shovel, or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that" -movie "Shane" 1953

Offline BamBams

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2004, 08:01:53 PM »
Quote from: Camp Cook
What about the tactical lights systems that are now out that mount to the rail under the front of the semi-auto handguns.


Well, from my perspective, those light systems would make me an easy target to shoot at.
NRA Handgun Instructor

Offline Dali Llama

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2452
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2004, 01:47:50 AM »
Quote from: BamBams
Quote from: Camp Cook
What about the tactical lights systems that are now out that mount to the rail under the front of the semi-auto handguns.


Well, from my perspective, those light systems would make me an easy target to shoot at.
Dali Llama say such light should only be activated intermittently, not constantly.
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline BamBams

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2004, 05:54:44 AM »
BamBams say that even doing that makes him an easy target for a ready shooter.  BamBams say that those lights simply announce his presence to perpetrator.

BamBams make bold statement that laser sights and flashlights installed on handguns be more marketing hype than anything else, and will lead to more dead victims than dead burglers. Better option would be to puchase a $20, "D" cell,  Maglight from Walmart that can be used to crush skull of perp in the dark.

Bamalama further suggest that better idea is to install dim (non white)night lights near possible points of entry on premises so homeowner can stay in the dark and still ID targets.  *smiles*

Bamalama believes going to "safe" room and taking cover, while waiting for perpetrator to come to him in the ambience of a night light is very good choice and also affords opportunity for dialing government sponsored "dial-a-prayer"  ie "911"

Bamalama DOES think tritium nightsights are *VERY* practical - if not mandatory today, on a home defense pistol.

Bamalama thinks he will change his nick permanently to Bamalama and write in the 3rd person because it's FUN!
NRA Handgun Instructor

Offline Camp Cook

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 683
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2004, 08:38:21 AM »
I still think that the tactical lights are a super idea. Gives me the chance to instantly decide if I want a light on or not. If it is a bad guy or not is important to me! I don't shoot at an animal until I identify it. Why would I shoot at anything else until I'm sure? I'd like to see someone or an animal get at me when I've temperarily blinded it with this high intensity light which also has either a 10mm or 45-70 barrel pointed at it. I'm not refering to any military applications though because I have no experience with that, but I'm sure that the lights will also have limited uses for that as well.
Cam
<")))><

"A gun is a tool, Marian. No better, no worse than any other tool. An axe, a shovel, or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that" -movie "Shane" 1953

Offline BamBams

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2004, 10:16:36 AM »
Okay.  Just think about this for awile.  I'm a burgler.  I force entry into your home.  I am carrying a handgun or shotgun, and I am ready to use it.

The instant I see a bright light pointed at me, (or a light beam going around the house that tells me exactly where the homeowner is) I point at the source and I pull the trigger.  Bang.  It's over.  I had the advantage and I had the target acquisition.

A bad guy can just as easily empty his magazine at the sunshine as he can a human form.
NRA Handgun Instructor

Offline Sure-Shot

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2004, 07:12:06 AM »
How about a panic light.  One so bright you will blind the intruder.  Have a super bright light in the hallway to my bedroom can turn it on off from inside before I open the door.  They will be blind I won't.  Far enough down the hallway to make them think it is coming from behind.  Bright enough to cause them trouble wherever they are in the hallway.  Besides gives them a very narrow alley to be in and for me to shoot at.
GBOT GBA

Offline Red Neck64

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 136
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2004, 02:08:21 PM »
Quote from: Sure-Shot
How about a panic light.  One so bright you will blind the intruder.  Have a super bright light in the hallway to my bedroom can turn it on off from inside before I open the door.  They will be blind I won't.  Far enough down the hallway to make them think it is coming from behind.  Bright enough to cause them trouble wherever they are in the hallway.  Besides gives them a very narrow alley to be in and for me to shoot at.

Were are his eyes,can you see him?Once he/she sees your light your dead.The same goes for noise/talking.

Offline IntrepidWizard

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1130
ALWAYS IN THE DARK
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2004, 02:19:20 PM »
In the dark you have a tremendous advantage until there is gun fire or a light in your own environs,you know your house/environs the Perp does not,he is for crash bam,so you are for fire and move,when you fire at night you loose your Night site ,so move and fire.Also,go out in the dark and look at what others see from the outside.A shotgun is best with a 1911 backup,if you fall,trip or are wounded the handgun comes into play,and remember everybody shoots high at night.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is
a dangerous servant and a fearful master. -- George Washington

Offline Sure-Shot

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2004, 02:41:23 PM »
This is a mounted light outside my bedroom door that takes away whatever night vision they have.  I operate it from my bedroom with the door closed.  They can't come down the hallway without me hearing it and the light hits them from the backside, will generally make them turn that direction.  I then turn the light off, and with my night vision intact, can open the door and take whatever action I need to.
GBOT GBA

Offline Dali Llama

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2452
Re: ALWAYS IN THE DARK
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2004, 02:59:28 PM »
Quote from: IntrepidWizard
remember everybody shoots high at night.
Dali Llama curious if there be verified source of such information?
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk

Offline 10ga.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 191
  • Gender: Male
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2004, 04:32:12 PM »
Quote from: BamBams
Better option would be to puchase a $20, "D" cell,  Maglight from Walmart that can be used to crush skull of perp in the dark.

 :)  :)  :)  :)
Paul Corbett
**********************************
NEF 10ga SB2-MAB 
Handi-Rifle 30-06 Synthetic
H&R 12ga SB2-980 Ultra Slug
S&W .357 Model 586
**********************************
"Peace Through Superior Firepower"

Offline BamBams

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1272
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2004, 03:47:03 AM »
Quote from: Sure-Shot
This is a mounted light outside my bedroom door that takes away whatever night vision they have.  I operate it from my bedroom with the door closed.  They can't come down the hallway without me hearing it and the light hits them from the backside, will generally make them turn that direction.  I then turn the light off, and with my night vision intact, can open the door and take whatever action I need to.


This works to some degree.  Back in the 1980's, I had a problem with "certain" people who enjoyed showing up at my rented trailer home late at night and banging on the door trying to wake me up to go out and do crazy things with them.

Jerks like this, and burglars too, hate being exposed in the light because it makes them more vulnerable. Here is what I did:

I installed two very bright spot lights on the top of a 25 foot electric company utility pole.  I aimed them right at my front door.  I put a "panic switch" on the wall right next to my bed.  This switch also activated a small, red, light bulb in my bedroom, so I could simultaneously find my way around the room if need be.  One night, they showed up again, drunk, laughing and banging on my door at around 2 a.m..

I pushed the button, and they got very quiet.  I think the bright lights suprised them more than it blinded them though. I then grabbed my shotgun and went out the BACK door.  When I crept up on them and looked into their eyes, it was obvious that the bright lights were affecting their vision and annoying them. I wouldn't go so far as to say they were "blinded," but I was able to surpise them by coming up on them from the darkness.   All I said was, "What do you want?" And all they said was, "We're going fishing, wanna come?"  BUT, this type of thing NEVER happened again.  I was pleased that I was able to ruin their
"game" with simple technology and some creative thinking.

I agree with Wizard that darkness and PLANNING create a tremendous advantage for a potential victim.  The more, the better.  I think it's a better game if the homeowner pinpoints the entry points into their home in advance, and plans shooting angles in advance.  Granted, there are situations where using a flashlight can be helpful, but in an armed shootout no.  The whole concept of blinding an armed felon with a high intensity flashlight installed on the defense gun completely falls to pieces in the majority of armed, home intrusion, shootout scenarios.

The marketing genius' would actually have one believe that shining a bright light at a potential shooter somehow causes some type of "paralysis" enabling you to shoot them first. They shouldn't be doing this, even though it does help sell a bunch of flashlights.

I think that motion sensing flood lights at entrances are a real good idea also.  They are very inexpensive (again at Walmart) and will help ruin night vision.  They also prevent people from seeing "through" our windows. They send a message/warning that the homeowner at least  "thinks" about home security and just might be ready for them - a good deterrent IMHO.

So how do you ID your target in a dark room?  One person suggested saying "Freeze," and waiting for a reply which would certainly come to you if it was a child, spouse, etc.  I'd be a concerned that the reply might be gunfire, so I'm not so sure about this method.  What do you think?
NRA Handgun Instructor

Offline Dali Llama

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2452
Doing It In the Dark!
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2004, 07:57:44 AM »
Quote from: BamBams
Quote from: Sure-Shot

The marketing genius' would actually have one believe that shining a bright light at a potential shooter somehow causes some type of "paralysis" enabling you to shoot them first.
Dali Llama say BamBams apparently not aware of luminous intensity of some modern flashlights. :-)
AKA "Blademan52" from Marlin Talk