Bit of caution (someone will surely disagree) I personally stay far away from all copper shotgun projectiles. I live next to a deer processor, and have seen a few 12 ga. all copper hollow points that have failed to open, or penetrate shoulders! I know that sounds wrong, as youd expect them to still penetrate, maybe they tumbled on impact, but there they were in muscle tissue. Personally I like hornady and 3"er's but remember, cheap old lead slugs have killed LOTS of deer in smooth bores, before our nice rifled shotguns of today. So don't neglect an ugly lead slug in a sabot if it is cheap and shoots good! +1 to trying whatever you can get your hands on to find a good fit. jmho