h&r shikari 44 mag to 444 marlin?

[dk17hmr]

There is a Shikari for sale locally for in good shape and for a decent price, its chambered in 44magnum. Bad idea to ream it out?  I just sold all the reloading gear and brassI had for 44 magnum but still have all the 444 marlin equipment and supplies as well as some factory ammo.
Just wondering, the gun fund is next to nothing right now with the purchase of a couple contender barrels.
 

[tacklebury]

Cast Iron frame, so probably a bad idea unless you keep the pressures down.  .444 has a lot more case capacity than a .44 Magnum. 

[dk17hmr]

I thought they were cast iron frames but couldn't remember.  Like I say its not in the gun budget right now so its not going to happen either way, just thinking out loud.

[gcrank1]

I agree it would not be wise to do a 444 on the Shikari weaker frame. If I came across one so done my loads would be cast bullets with Trail Boss in 444, but the fact is I can drive cast bullets at the same speed in the 44 Mag chamber. Then there is the issue of someone 'after me' loading factory high pressure loads by assuming it is OK because 444's fit.
BTW, my first H&R was a 44Mag Shikari and I should have NEVER got rid of it! I even loaded some 265gr. jacketed bullets back then in the H&R and my early Ruger Redhawk; quite the thumpers, and cast bullets from subsonic to full Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook data all shot well. Round balls did too, but to a much different POI.

[bikerbeans]

I just reamed my 44m shikari to 445SM.  First range trip this week so will see how it goes.  My main thought was to improve the leade/accuracy and be able to shoot a bit heavier cast boolit at a decent velocity.  Gun will still shoot 44M or 44 special for that matter, something you couldn't and probably shouldn't do in a 444Marlin chamber.  If  you have the funds I would go for it, Shikaris are cool.    Maybe trade off some of your 444M reloading stuff and/or ammo for some 44M supplies?

BB

[petemi]

The Shikari in .44 Mag is a great gun in itself.  I wouldn't mess with it.  If I wanted a .444, I'd just get another barrel or rifle.  I've got a .45-70 (second one coming soon) and a .445.  I have no need for a .444.  Perhaps I'm wrong, but it think it's another non- caliber that will eventually fade away.  I believe there are others that do the job better.

Pete

[45-70.gov]

$30  would get you back into the 44mag reloading

[dk17hmr]

Like I said not buying it just wondering they are neat looking but I'm more or less out of the h&r/nef game..... only one I have left is the short  30-06 that rides around in my truck all the time.  I got rid of the 44 magnum stuff and kept the 444 stuff for a reason. 

[ironglow]

I recall when I bought my Shikari new back in the 70s I believe it was, the Shikari came in 45/70 also.. I doubt though that the factory 45/70s create the same pressure as a .444
  Those Shikaris were nice..Mine got 4 deer for me over the years, I gave it to a grandson and he has harvested 3 more since. It is a good shooter and personally, I would keep a Shikari original..but that's just me..
  If the price is right, I'd grab it since I doubt it's value can go anywhere but up.

[tacklebury]

.45-70 lever guns are rated at 28k map and 444 marlin lever guns are rated up to 51000 map.  The .444 can was designed to handle higher pressures, but depending on your load level, you could probably shoot a .458 win mag in a H&R platform just downloaded to be safe.  I'm NOT recommending that, now or ever, but just stating that factory ammo for .444 could produce higher than acceptable pressures and even the .45-70 loads in a Shakari were to be trap door level, so it's no where near the levels I use in my SB2 frame.  So if you use reloads you know are lower power, you can probably make it work....

[gcrank1]

I agree it 'can be done safely', but I think the real question really comes down to 'should it be done', to which it gets iffy since we never know where it will end up.

[45-70.gov]

the cost  of 444 brass  would negate the cost of 44 mag dies


then add in powder consumption   difference   
reamer  rent?

[ironglow]

  Next question;
       Are there sufficient .429 bullet choices to keep you happy at .444 velocities ?  Many of the 240 gr bullets disintegrate at .444 speeds.
  Meanwhile, I don't know what your aim is, but for game such as deer and black bear..don't underestimate the .44 Mag itself, especially withing 100-125 yards or so.  I've used them and really like them for exactly those situations...
 
  Oops!  I see you live in Wyoming; probably long range shots for either .44 or .444 right ?

[quickdtoo]

444M bullets should be.430", .429" are usually pistol bullets.   

Tim

http://www.hornady.com/store/44-Cal-.430-265-gr-FP/

http://www.hornady.com/store/44-Cal-.430-265-gr-FTX-for-444-Marlin/

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/444%20Marlin.pdf

[petemi]

444M bullets should be.430", .429" are usually pistol bullets.   

Tim

http://www.hornady.com/store/44-Cal-.430-265-gr-FP/

http://www.hornady.com/store/44-Cal-.430-265-gr-FTX-for-444-Marlin/

That's one of the large reasons I never went into the .444.  There's a greater selection of bullets available in the other large calibers I  shoot.  Added to that, nobody can show me that the .444 will do any more than the .45-70.  That's why I believe the .444 will take a walk in History.  The .45-70 has been around a bit longer....still works.... 100 plus years.....5 feet to 1000 yards and more.

That's probably the reason I'm building another for the historic Trap Door loads.  Yes, it'll be on a SB2 frame as all my CFs are.  If I mix up ammo, it won't matter a bit.  Maybe you younger guys can get away with doing less, but I've got to back up myself with "fail safe" procedures.

Pete

[LaOtto222]

The 444 Marlin has been around for 50 years and rifles are still being made for them. It will be a long time before the 444 disappears. the 45-70 can be loaded up to a higher power level and bullet selection is better than the 444 Marlin. But have it go away because it does not measure up is like saying the 7mm-08 worthless because the 30-06 will do every thing the 7-08 will do and has better bullet selection. Each has their place. Sure 45-70 ammo is easy to get in most places, but they are usually low level loads so they are safe in the old trap door type rifles. So it is either order higher level loads or roll your own. The 444 Marlin ammo is the same high level no matter where you find it. So if you do not reload the 444 would be a logical choice. I like the 444 because I can use the same bullets for the 44 Mag or the 444 Marlin. I have some Beartooth 265 grain GC cast that shoot very well in either. The Hornady 265 also shoot well in both rifles as well as my handguns. The 444 Marlin will anchor everything on the North American Continent as long as you choose a bullet up to the task, place it well and keep the range reasonable. You can say the same thing about the 45-70. How dead is dead? You can shoot a 458 Win Mag through the gut and you have a wounded animal. I doubt I will live to see the demise of the 444 Marlin in what is left of my life. The 45-70 is a great cartridge, just do not sell the 444 short.

Good Luck and Good Shooting

[ironglow]

  Tim says;
  " 444M bullets should be.430", .429" are usually pistol bullets."
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  Thanks Tim, I was wondering about that!!