158 Frame

[FPH]

I have a Topper 158 Framed 20 ga.  I realize H & R won't fit a rife barrel to it.  I am considering a .45-90.  Anyone with experience using this frame?     Thanks

[hoytcanon]

My advice is don't do it... even with reduced loads. Buy an SB2 frame for your .45/90 build, then you can test any load you desire.

[FPH]

My advice is don't do it... even with reduced loads. Buy an SB2 frame for your .45/90 build, then you can test any load you desire.

That's all I needed to hear.....thanks

[Winter Hawk]

The 158 frame was for low pressure rounds.  .45-70 wasn't low enough, .45-90 would certainly stretch the limits.  As Hoytcanon recommends, get an SB2 frame which was designed for these pressures.

-WH-

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

I'm looking at going the other way, putting my 30-30 barrel from my 158 onto one of my SB2 frames, and fitting my Hornet to the 158.

[FPH]

You guys have just reinforced my understanding of the situation..

[gcrank1]

The big firing pin 'may' become an issue with stout CF rifle loads. If so, use 'hard' primers and/or back the load off until it isnt an issue. I know some of those Hornet loads are prone to making primer flow, way moreso than any factory duplicate 30-30 load Ive made.

[FPH]

I think I will just stay with my 20 ga.  I was just playing anyway.  If I go for a .45-90 or 120 I'll get an SB2 .

[gcrank1]

I admit that a 45-90 is cool (I do like looking at & handling 'cigar' cartridges), but if you check the original ballistics you will quickly see that a 45-70 can be loaded to 45-90 equiv. without any trouble. In those BP days all they could do to get more velo was stuff in more BP, not so now with smokeless.
Get a 45-70 and have at it; if/when you get bored with it think about a rechamber to 45-90.

[FPH]

I have seen that the 120 doesn't really give you much advantage over the 90.  I started out thinking .45-120, but I decided to scale it back to the 90.  There does seem to be gain that can be made with the 90 over the 70.

[gcrank1]

I think you have to consider 'paper gain' vs 'practical gain'. You can definitely load a 45-70 cartridge to painful with light for caliber (Express) or big heavies without going to rechambering to 45-90 or 120.
And for cast bullets you are realistically not going to get jacketed bullet velo (without 'advanced' alloy techniques) anyway.
Get one, try it, come on, you know you want to.......come on.....(what!, we have no 'bad angel' icon?)

[quickdtoo]

The advantage of the 120 over the 70 or 90 is that it will achieve the same velocity at much less pressure with smokeless loads. Just using Hodgdon and Hornady data for comparing the 45-70 to a 45-120, Hornady 8th data shows a 45-70 500gr jacketed bullet loaded to 1800fps in their 22" barrel runs 50kcup, Hodgdon data for a 500gr cast bullet loaded to 1809fps in a 24" barrel runs 28.5kcup.

Tim

[gcrank1]

Wont the felt recoil of a 500gr. projectile in an 8# rifle at 1800fps in either case still be...........argggggg?

[FPH]

The advantage of the 120 over the 70 or 90 is that it will achieve the same velocity at much less pressure with smokeless loads. Just using Hodgdon and Hornady data for comparing the 45-70 to a 45-120, Hornady 8th data shows a 45-70 500gr jacketed bullet loaded to 1800fps in their 22" barrel runs 50kcup, Hodgdon data for a 500gr cast bullet loaded to 1809fps in a 24" barrel runs 28.5kcup.

Tim

Good point.....I had forgotten about that.  I could not remember my initial liking of the 120.....you nailed it......thanks.

[quickdtoo]

Recoil of the 120 load will increase slightly over the 70 due to the increase in powder which has to be included in the ejecta weight of the recoil formula, 60gr H4895 vs ~50gr for the two Hornady powders, 47 or 53.

Tim

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

[FPH]

Recoil of the 120 load will increase slightly over the 70 due to the increase in powder which has to be included in the ejecta weight of the recoil formula, 60gr H4895 vs ~50gr for the two Hornady powders, 47 or 53.

Tim

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

Thanks