Author Topic: Dont SLAM 'em closed (Read 3148 times)

petemi · « **Reply #30 on:** April 10, 2013, 05:09:28 AM »

Not that idiocy can't happen with the .308 clan...all the above is why I own no '06s or their progeny. Patty still clings to a .270, 700 Mountain Rifle, but that's a matter of sentimentality. The .308 family does all we need with less pressure, lower cost and fewer problems. Yes, I know, The '06 is the "One do everything, All American, Patriotic Round." "All ya need is an '06 and a 12 Ga.." Sorry...our '06s turned into .308s, The .270s became 7mm-08s, our 12s became 20s; easier on the body and wallet, accurate on target, and just as deadly on game. We don't sky blast duck or geese. We seldom shoot 3 inchers, and never 3.5s. We don't need a magnum shotgun or a belted magnum rifle.

Pete

quickdtoo · « **Reply #31 on:** April 10, 2013, 05:20:29 AM »

Pete, the 308 family run at the same or higher pressure than the 30-06, so the lower pressure thinking doesn't hold water, 52kcup isn't the same as 52kpsi, 52kcup = 60-62kpsi.

Tim

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

http://kwk.us/pressures.html

petemi · « **Reply #32 on:** April 10, 2013, 06:14:59 AM »

Tim, I looked at max loads for the .308 and the '06 on Hodgdon's tables, using the 168 gr. BTs that I shoot and IMR4895. Max loads, all in PSI.

.308 168 gr. Sierra HPBT 45.4 gr. IMR4895 2758 fps. 58,000 psi.

.30-06 168 gr, Hornady HPBT 51.2 gr. IMR4895 2859 fps. 58,200 psi.

So what's it say? The '06 gives you 101 extra fps at a cost of 5.8 gr. of powder and 200 more psi. There's zero advantage there in my book.

Pete

quickdtoo · « **Reply #33 on:** April 10, 2013, 06:53:21 AM »

That's a pretty weak comparison if you want to show the difference, try some of the other powders that are shown for both chamberings, they show just the opposite as for pressure. In general, the bigger the case capacity, the less the pressure for equal velocity, an extreme example of that is the 45-120 which can produce the same velocity with 500gr bullets at trapdoor pressures as the 45-70 can at much higher pressure. For the 308 vs 30-06, the pressure is basically the only factor that changes since they have identical case heads diameter, so given the slightly less pressure of the 30-06 in general for given velocity, the 30-06 is more Handi friendly than the 308 based rounds, the only advantage the 308 base round has is it's a short action round which is a moot point in a Handi. If anything, the 30-06 has less breech thrust at the same pressure as the 308 due to having more case wall contact area.

Tim

308 Win 168gr HDY HPBT 4007SSC 48gr 2729fps 58300 psi

30-06 168gr HDY HPBT 4007SSC 53.5gr 2798fps 57900 psi

EDIT: One other factor that may even up the difference in case wall area contact is the 308's straighter case, less taper than the 30-06.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #34 on:** April 10, 2013, 07:14:07 AM »

WOW, did this ever morph quickly.....

quickdtoo · « **Reply #35 on:** April 10, 2013, 07:18:22 AM »

That's what happens when we're waiting on an update!

Tim

Quote from: gcrank1 on April 08, 2013, 05:05:24 AM

Guys, I promise to continue this for you:
Stay tuned for continued episodes of the 'Misadventures of Gcrank1' as he fights valiantly against the insidious forces of willful ignorance and ineptitude.( )

petemi · « **Reply #36 on:** April 10, 2013, 07:38:52 AM »

Tim, I picked those loads, not because they were optimum or to prove a point, but it is what I shoot in the .308s and what I shot in the .30-06. I think there ain't a lot to debate about except preference. Boiling it down, the plus or minus fps, pressure, powder, etc. doesn't add up to a lot. I first started with .308s in a Ruger M77 MKII. The short action, short cartridge worked for me and I liked it. That began my romance with the .308 family. I will admit I'm prejudiced. The .308 family has given me some spectacular long shots and kills. For me, it is not an everyday occurrence that I put a 168 gr. .308 BT for a perfect behind the shoulder shot on a red fox at 350 yards That target area is well below MOA. My .243 and .7mm-08 are sub-MOA and MOA at 300 respectively. My .356/.358 shoots MOA at 200.....most of the time....gotta work on it. Perhaps it's me flinching.

Pete

quickdtoo · « **Reply #37 on:** April 10, 2013, 08:13:37 AM »

Yup, they're pretty much ballistic twins, my longest shot on an animal just happens to be with a 308Win too, M81 BLR, 180gr Rem Core-lokt at around 300yds, seems to me with a 200yd zero it's 12" low at 300yds, last day of the season, all I had was a head shot on a 3-pt(8pt for you eastern fellas if ya count eye guards) standin lookin at me across a clear cut, I held even with the tips of his antlers and hit him at the base of the antler.

Tim

petemi · « **Reply #38 on:** April 10, 2013, 10:35:55 AM »

That's a nice shot Tim, and it put venison on your table.

We were eating supper when Patty spotted the fox on our south field and said "There's something moving down there." I grabbed the Ruger .308 (that was before my Handiholic days), skipped out on the back porch, rested on the rail and drilled him. I held over about a foot. The strange thing is two evenings later the same thing happened with a coyote....not 25 yards from where the fox was.....he joined his canine cousin. Same rifle, same scenario. That's been a number of years ago and hasn't happened since..........perhaps, .........it just might be......Patty and I can't see that far anymore

Pete

quickdtoo · « **Reply #39 on:** April 10, 2013, 10:53:13 AM »

That's awesome shooting on such a small critter Pete, I sure envy you and Patty being able to shoot from your porch, I can't even legally shoot an air rifle here, no rifle shooting in most of the county except at a range!! $:-\$

Tim

petemi · « **Reply #40 on:** April 10, 2013, 12:10:31 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on April 10, 2013, 10:53:13 AM

That's awesome shooting on such a small critter Pete, I sure envy you and Patty being able to shoot from your porch, I can't even legally shoot an air rifle here, no rifle shooting in most of the county except at a range!! $:-\$

Tim

Yeah Tim, I know. I've been there. Wonderful country with everything you could desire. Woodlands, mountains, river and streams, lakes, bays and ocean...nice climate........and from this Yooper's point of view.......too many people. I can't stand it south of the Mackinac Bridge...I almost died in Washington.

Pete

hoytcanon · « **Reply #41 on:** April 10, 2013, 01:10:48 PM »

On the .308 family vs .30/06 family (Hatfield's vs McCoy's???)... for me it isn't a pressure thing... it is a powder thing... a pound just goes further in the SA's... and SA vs LA is definitely moot for the Handi platform... unless you want to count raising your arm an extra 3/4" to chamber a round...

petemi · « **Reply #42 on:** April 10, 2013, 01:23:22 PM »

Hey Hoyt...I didn't realize the Hatfields and McCoys made it all the way to Sudbury, ON. Now that's a feud.

I agree with you 1000 percent. I think the SAs are more efficient and economical all the way around....Not to mention less bark and bite. I love em.

Pete

gcrank1 · « **Reply #43 on:** April 10, 2013, 01:23:26 PM »

BB's 45-120 got me into liking 'cigar rounds' more & more......

, and I do generally like long barrels too.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #44 on:** April 24, 2013, 05:37:26 PM »

Update on the original post:
A different friend of his took rifle and reloads that didnt fit, they also did not fit his bolt gun. They knocked them down and said 'they tried to resize them but they crumpled at the shoulder'.
Now I was not there to see this, I suspect perhaps some dimpled shoulders, maybe from too much lube.....who knows?, the fact is they apparently had not been FLS before reloading the last time, probably just neck sized and the brass from a different gun. For all I know they may have been using a Lyman 310 Tong Tool which just neck sizes rather than a FL size die.
So he bought 50 new cases and they loaded them up to some 'book spec' with the pulled bullets and they fit fine.
But I still have to glass bed his loose buttstock to the action.
All of this was just so needless

.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #45 on:** April 24, 2013, 05:42:00 PM »

Thanks for the update.

Tim

theratdog · « **Reply #46 on:** April 24, 2013, 09:11:44 PM »

i don't slam my guns.

goofyoldfart · « **Reply #47 on:** May 10, 2013, 06:18:34 PM »

Just couldn't get away from it, could ya.

But that's probably because he likes/trusts you.

. God Bless to all and theirs.

Goofy

gcrank1 · « **Reply #48 on:** May 11, 2013, 04:34:51 AM »

Got to his place to spend the day and took 'all the stuff'. First thing was to open it and unload, fortunately I had it muzzle mostly up 'cause the brass came out fine, but the bullet was stuck in the lands. No biggie since the powder didnt fall out, so the bullets just need to be seated a smidge deeper.
Dismounted the barrel, removed the buttstock, plugged the holes in the back of the frame and wrapped the exposed threads of the through-bolt with teflon tape then smeared a little cooking oil on the frame. With a little rough up on the butt knuckle and a healthy coat of stiffish epoxy it was carefully tightened down only to 'epoxy push out' and contact on the frame. Once the epoxy had set to semi-hard the push-out excess was easy to trim off with my always carried 'razor-sharp'

SAK.
It is good to go now.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #49 on:** May 11, 2013, 04:38:50 AM »

Good work and thanks for the follow up, hope ya told em to work that load up again if it's anything but a start load when seating the bullet deeper.

Tim

gcrank1 · « **Reply #50 on:** May 11, 2013, 05:12:42 AM »

The bullet was an easy knock out, even though the COL was right they had not considered ojive so the 'just kissing the lands' turned to 'into the lands'. Underscores that ya make one and trial fit to the gun before rocking out a bunch.
And the loads were not top of data

; good reminder though!