Barnes Triple-Shock X-Bullets???

[Lawdog]

Has anyone tried any of the Barnes Triple-Shock X-Bullets yet?  If so what where the results you got from them?  I have gotten some good results with Barnes X and XLC bullets but sometimes you have to play around with seating depths and loads before getting good accuracy.  Barnes says “that their new Triple-Shock X-Bullet can be safely loaded to higher velocities and delivers significantly greater accuracy. Many shooters report groups half the size they'd obtained with other bullets.” so I am interested in others opinion that have tried them.  Small groups and tight lines to all.  Lawdog
 

[The Bonz]

I have shot the TSX as Barnes calls them side by side with XLC and X bullets.  The TSX gets to the same velocity as the XLC, but with a bit less powder.  Barnes has told me they work under a little different principle than the XLC, but velocity will be similar, and I have confirmed that.  I shot the 150gr. .308 versions of each.  Velocity with the XLC and XBT out of my .300 Win Mag is just under 3400 fps.  The top speed with the reg. X is around 3250-3300.  My theory is the XLC being lubrcated so to speak, reduces pressures (initially upon firing, as the bullet hits the rifling) more than the TSX and that is why you will find the TSX to not need as much powder as an XLC to reach the higher velocity.  However since they reach about the same velocity at similar pressure, I scratch my head on the powder charge difference.
 I have not fired the new TSX in .225 gr. .358, but cannot wait to get ahold of them and work up loads.  I am getting great accuracy with the XLC in my .35 Whelen Imp. (1") and reg. X.   The velocity with the 225 gr. XLC is well over 2800 fps compared to low 2700's with the reg. X.  The only benefit I see is the TSX may show more accuracy.  All other lead core bullets shoot as well or better, well under 1' so the TSX may match that and thus improve on the XLC in my Whelen Imp.  
My accuracy with the 150 .308 TSX and XLC seems to be similar in my .300 Win mag.  
Hope this helps.

[Big Tom]

I have been thinking of a 165 gr Elk load for my .300 WSM. I may even go 180 but I am leery from what I read about casing limitations with 180-200 gr loads in th WSMs.
I should get ample speed from a 165 XXX to fully expand the bullet, wouldn't you think? :roll:

[The Bonz]

You will have a hard time with powder capacity when using the 180 gr. version of any X-bullet.  I have a 300 Win Mag (M70) that came with a really long throat of .25" or a bit more.  I had a gunsmith alter the action so I could cycle longer OAL cartridges, and I drilled out the magazine filler welds and removed that so my magazine will hold them up to 3.610" now.  I can seat the 180XBT's so the base of the bullet is just below the neck of the case.  I load 77 gr of IMR 7828.  
I try to load the same bullet in my brother's 300 Win Mag, and have to seat it to a 3.340" OAL because he has a standard throating.  I have to use a lesser charge of a quicker powder to get the bullet to seat to the 3.340" without excessive compression.  
I feel the 165 will perform without flaw on your next elk or any critter.  They should retain more weight than a 200 gr partition (from what Barnes tells me) and penetrate as well or better.  You should have no problems with expansion, I would think you can get velocity up to around 3200 fps.  I shot a 5x4 Bull Elk at a lazered 334 yds. with the above load in my 300 Win Mag, (at 3060 fps muzzle velocity) and it shattered a rib going in, left a quarter size hole in each lung and the top of the heart, and nicked a rib going out.  He lurched, then walked 25 feet. (20 feet forward, 5 feet straight down!).  I shot a cow elk with a 225 gr.  X out of my 35 Whelen Imp. at 204 yds, and a MV of 2750 fps.  It went in between the ribs, put a little larger hole than the 180X through each lung, and between ribs going out. She dropped quicker than quick.  Impact  velocity was 2200 fps or so I would guess, and it opened up well as best as I could tell based on the lung damage.  Have fun shooting the X bullets of any design, as they kill quick and do virtually no meat damage.
Bonz.

[Spot Shooter]

Lawdog,

   My browning abolt 300Wisser loves Triple shocks.  I've got them grouping under .5" at 100, and my 300 yard group (I haven't shot that much at 300 yet) was 2.5".

   When I get my rifle back from McMillan I'll do some more 300 yard groups.  I'm using Norma cases (slightly less capacity) with the 180 gr. Triple.

Spot

[oso45-70]

Bonz,
Do you have a report on the TSX bullets for the 375 H&H I know this is a medium bore forum, Just couldent help myself,  would like to hear what you thought about the 375 and TSX bullets, Thanks........Joe..........

[The Bonz]

I do not have any info on .375 TSX or other X bullets.  I have shot and gathered the data on the ones for my rifles.  The 225 gr. .358 TSX for my Whelen Improved is now available, and I will pick some up here shortly to satisfy my curiosity!  My Whelen Imp. shoots the 225 gr XLC so well and so fast (well over 2800 fps) that the only reason to even try the 225 TSX would be if the TSX was faster (doubt there is any difference) and mostly to have a normal looking bullet sticking out of the case as opposed to a big blue beacon.  Hope you find some info.  I have always had great results emailing Barnes and they respond.  
Nosler on the other hand can throw any claim on responsiveness out the window, as no one is availale to take a phone call (left early to go hunting, all out on the show room, all out to lunch, etc.).  They do not have email as far as I can tell either.  
Good luck and I'd like to hear any results.
Bonz.

[Buckfever]

Word on the street is they are consistently accurate and the company recommends downsizing bullet size.  Does anyone know if that is related to their longer size or if they loose less material so a smaller bullet does the same job?  Those rings free up the contact in the barrel.  Too many headaches trying to get it to shoot accurately in my 30-06 but maybe ready to try in the 6.5-55 as a 130gr. , if they are accurate?
Buckfever

[The Bonz]

Barnes has been recommending for years that you go to a lighter bullet to gain trajectory and lessen recoil.  The TSX's grooves will allow bullet material to flow into them as opposed to being smeared to the back of the bullet as it moves down the barrel.  This should make it conform to the barrel better and with less fuss, thus resulting in more accuracy.  

The reason for the lighter bullet is along the lines of what you said...  The longer length vs. a lead core bullet of the wasme weight makes you able to go down from, say, a 180 gr. .308 to a 150 gr. .308.  The next reason you can do it is the X bullets lose virtually no weight on impact or penetration.  100% wt retention of a 150 gr. X bullet with sharp petals gives better penetration than a 200 grain Partition that maintains 65% weight.  
Bonz.

[Squeeze]

OK, do I need to pull some bullets, and start with a smaller Powder charge?
 
I have a Barnes 165 gr. XLC load, that my .300 WSM likes, to the tune of .6 MOA.
So when the TSX bullets came out, I bought a box of 165 gr TSX bullets, and  
used my XLC load, which is 70.0 gr of RL-19, a CCI LR primer, and the bullet  
seated .050" off the lands.  This load is 1 gr. below the published max.  So now  
I read that the TSX bullets use less powder to reach the same velocities.  How  
much is "less powder"?  1 gr? 2 gr? 3 gr?  Due to my summer activities, I have  
not made it to the range, to test this new load/bullet, and now I am thinking  
that may have been fortuitous.  When I put the sample loads together, I had a  
passing thought, to drop down 2 grains off of the max, but from my notes, I  
did have a 71.0 grain test group that did not show signs of pressure, with the
XLC bullet, but my chrony readings suggested I was close.  The 70.0 grain loads
had better accuracy, and good velocities, so I backed off 1 gr.  If the "less powder,
for the same velocity", is in the range of 1 gr, then I will not worry about this
first test group, but if it is several grains less powder, I will be giving the bullet  
puller a workout.
 
Squeeze

[shoot'n hogs]

I have loaded 180 gr. TSX in my Sendero 300 RUM.  It took quite a few trys to get the C.O.L. right but it was worth it.  At 100 yrds., 3 shot groups, it shot .14" center to center.  I almost got discouraged with the bullet until I talked w/ the tech. support at Barnes.  They were very helpful and encouraged me to continue on.  After about 30 - 35 loads, I hit jackpot.  I shot a 180lbs. boar last week at about 100 - 120 yrds.  The bullet retained 179 gr. of 180 gr.  The hog accually did a complete flip at impact.  I shot the hog in the head which had a .30" entrance hole and about a 2" exit hole.  I shot through 7 gal. of water at 100 yrds to retrieve the bullet.  The bullet was almost 3 times the size in diameter.

[Spot Shooter]

Good point on the expansion.

I loaded mine up for Elk but got to try them on Mule deer last year.

I ended up going for one day (the last day) and had a buck, and a doe tag.  I came to a drainage where a herd of 7 or 8 had run up to a fence line about 250 yds in front of me.  Too many deer in a Row!  I waited but finally saw what was pushing them (pheasant hunters).  Anywho, I had a big doe infront of a buck (spike)... only 4 of them hadn't jumped the fence.

Long story short... the doe finally saw me ears went up and her head cranked around down the fence line to me.  The buck was two feet to her left directly behind her butt.  Now they are the only two left... So I lined up on her as she took a step my way (no longer broad side)... I figured if he jumps while I'm shooting I'm good with the tags anyway so I took the shot.  

  Damn murphy!  I hit her in the shoulder where I was aiming just infront of the shoulder blade.  The shot exited just infront of her hind quarter and took the buck's backbone out (he was directly broadside but had haunched down to jump the fence, I'm guess'n).  Both deer dropped in their tracks.  The doe had a 1/2 entry and about a 3 to 4" exit, the buck had a 5" entrance, and maybe a 6" exit....  

Darn tough bullets - shot out of my 300WSM (the proper short Mag).  at around 3k fps.    

Spot

[Mac11700]

Has anyone used these in a 1/4 bore rifle...I'm curious how they will do out of my 257 Weatherby Mag


Mac

[The Bonz]

I was looking at my data for the TSX vs. XLC.  I shot some 150's of each, and the fact it takes less powder to reach the same velocity with the TSX is still a hard one for me to fathom.  

Ultimately, pressure has to be the same and the peak pressure must be maintained for the same time in order to get the same velocity out of the same barrel.  I mean physics is physics, right?  

All I can come up with is that the powder difference Barnes talks about (1 or 2 less grains for the TSX vs. XLC) is attributed to the way the bullets react upon INITIALLY engraving the rifling.

 I would guess that the XLC provides more pressure relief upon entering the barrel and it's effect is reduced after that ( it "burns" off or wipes off), and the extra powder makes up for less initial pressure by pushing longer on the bullet as it travels.  Once a bullet is a few inches down the barrel, pressure is falling fast so more powder keeps the pressure up longer.

The TSX then would provide a more even pressure curve from beginning to end as the grooves do not go away like the coating probably does.  That could then provide the same velocity with less powder.

The difference would be a matter of when the pressure relief is the most and how consistent the relief is through the whole trip down the barrel.

Make sense?  Any other thoughts are welcome!

Bonz.

[The Bonz]

Finally got some 225 grain .358 TSX's, and they shoot well.  No real improvement in accuracy over the std or XLC bullets in my Whelen, and the max. loads and velocity are lower than with the XLC.   2800 fps is max for them out of my 26" bbl Mauser 98.  I can go a good bit faster with the XLC's, but the TSX's beat the std. 225 X by 80-100 fps.  

I have been bugging Barnes to put an XLC version of the TSX out and see if it could be the best yet for velocity.  

I think the TSX will replace the std. X in all calibers eventually, and the XLC will continue if I hear and suspect correctly.  

Bonz.

[Mac11700]

The Bonz:

Have you tried any of the 180 X bullets out of your Imp Whelen lately? Any thoughts how that 180 at 3100 FPS would be as compared to the 30 cal? I getting ready to load up and try them in my RMEF NEF single shot and see how they preform....Ty from Barnes was nice enough to send some of  them to me to try....

Mac

[The Bonz]

I have not tried any 180X's in .358 lately, although when I did try them they were a little more accurate than the 225's, but just by .2" or .3"  (.8" vs. 1.1").  I got around 3050 fps as I recall.  I get 3050 fps with the 180 XBT out of my .300 Win Mag.  I have no doubt that the 180 gr. .308 bullet is more dire on the killing end than a 180 gr. .358 given all else as equal, simply because it will penetrate better from a hard angle on an elk.  

MAYBE I am wrong in saying that, because I have never shot an animal with the 180 X out of the Whelen.  

The big difference I see will be in the trajectory and retained energy at long range because of the dramatic difference in ballistic coefficient.  Both of those factors therefore would affect penetration given the difference in speed and energy at impact.  

I am sticking with the 225 X in .358 for this season again.  I have the XLC's and TSX's now, but the difference in performance out to 300 yds is minimal, and I have a lot of the regular 225X's left to use so I figure use them up!

[Lawdog]

Bonz,

I have been bugging Barnes to put an XLC version of the TSX out and see if it could be the best yet for velocity.

I think the TSX will replace the std. X in all calibers eventually, and the XLC will continue if I hear and suspect correctly.

I am betting "we" are not the only ones bugging Barnes about coming out with a moly coated TSX version.  As soon as they do you may want to take a full box of the old "X" and "XLC" bullets and hide them away as a collector items.  I am finding that the TSX leaves less copper fouling than the old "X" bullet.  Barnes is convincing me and many others.  Small groups and tight lines to all.  Lawdog
 

[The Bonz]

Ty at barnes has said to me in an email that they don't plan on an XLC/TSX combo, but I think it's gotta happen!  

I can't say I have noticed a whole lot less fouling with the TSX's, but I scrub my bore clean after each session, and with the method I use it all cleans up pretty well so I don't know if I can tell the difference anyhow.

They are just deadly on animals, and I've used them in .284, .308 and .358 with never a failure.

Maybe never a failure is not correct.  The first X's I loaded back in 1993 were 180 X's in a .300 Win Mag.  Velocity was 2950 or so.  I shot at a muley doe 75 yds away and broadside to me.  There were two deer, and the one I  shot headed downhill and the other uphill.  Had to think I hit her because she headed down hill, but not sure if that is a good indicator or not.  I found no sign of a hit, no nothing and no sign of the deer after an hour of searching with my hunting buddy.  I can only think it penciled through and did not expand.  I certainly CAN miss, but everything was right when the trigger broke, and I verified the zero back at camp that night to be sure it wasn't off, and it wasn't.  Could have been a problem with the early ones, that I heard of at times.

Bonz

[Patriot_1776]

In my experience with them, I think they are revolutionary.  I have had consistent performance but I'm still looking for the right load. Also too, the fouling is not as bad nor hard to remove as the X bullets are/have been portrayed by critics.  For those who are skeptical about the toughness of the TSX, or if you all want to know even further the extraordinary integrity of these bullets, please read my post in the "Bolt Action Rifles" section in the index.  The heading is "Ultimate Barnes X Test", and look for it a third of the way down the page (if you have read it already, don't bother!:))  I'll always recommend Barnes X to anybody, and especially the TSX.  BTW, I've been wondering if anybody has developed consistenly accurate/tight grouping loads with the 180gr. TSX in 300 Wby.  I posted a question in the "Hand Loading for Rifles and Handguns  " forum; no answers yet, so I figured I'd drop the question here too.  Thanks,  Patriot

[Buckfever]

This load would be for my 308 with shots under 200 yds mostly under 100yds for 250 lb and larger bucks in Saskatchewan.  Is it worth the switch to the TSX?  If so what size bullet 150gr, 165gr, 180gr.  Or is there another bullet I should consider?   My partitions in a 180gr have worked OK so far.  Buckfever

[Patriot_1776]

Buckfever,

I'd say it would be perfectly safe to back down to a 165gr. TSX.  Also, it IS worth the switch to the TSX.  The benefit involved with many of Barnes' bullets is you can reduce your bullet weight by a margin, and still get the same, if not better, on-game performance.  You don't have to worry much about penetration, the bullet's design takes care of that, it does not depend so much on the weight anymore.  Good luck if you decide on testing those bullets, and God bless.   Patriot

P.S.  Here is a good article to read up on the TSX:  http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/triple_0723/

[Bob in TX]

I loaded the 140 gr. TSX's this season for my 7mm-08. I have taken 3 whitetails so far, one 10 point buck (low-fenced ranch) and two does. None of them went more than 20 yards. I had bullet sizes entry wounds and nickel to quarter sized exits with blood. This is a small sample, but so far so good. I was using Ramshot Big Game powder. There are also two less coyotes running around Texas too.

Good Hunting,

Bob

[Dand]

 Yah got me laughing with that last line:

"There is room for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes. "


that's a good one.  Can't wait to use it - with all due credit to you.

[kombi1976]

Does anyone a bit closer to the company know if Barnes is contemplating producing an 8mm TSX bullet?
At the moment they produce an 8mm XLC that's 200gn from memory but with the outstanding response about the TSX I think it'd be a wonderful bullet for 8mm.