Author Topic: Barbette carriage plans  (Read 1297 times)

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Offline Legio3arty

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Barbette carriage plans
« on: May 26, 2013, 02:58:04 AM »
Anyone out there know of good downloadable plans for a Civil War ers wooden barbette carriage? I just picked up a pair of .62cal barrels to go with my A&K mini 6-pound field gun. One will be going onto an "Old Ironsides" style naval/garrison carriage, but the other is shaped more like a Napoleon so I think it will look better on a top-tier batbette mount. It will also leave me with a complete set of naval, field, and fortress guns, all in the same caliber covering the RevWar to Civ War eras. I have access to autocad so I can make plans and scale them to fit, but a source for good clear line drawings and some dimensions would help a lot.

Offline Double D

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Re: Barbette carriage plans
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2013, 06:18:38 AM »




Cliuck on picture to make bigger.

Offline MKlein

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Re: Barbette carriage plans
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2013, 06:40:22 AM »
While we have the Green's Widow Blakely plan up, I have a question. I found this picture in the book Artillery and Ammunition of the Civil War by Ripley and I am wondering which carriage is more correct for the Widow Blakely. The carriage it is currently on now is probably not correct either.

Offline The Jeff

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Re: Barbette carriage plans
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2013, 12:35:04 PM »
While we have the Green's Widow Blakely plan up, I have a question. I found this picture in the book Artillery and Ammunition of the Civil War by Ripley and I am wondering which carriage is more correct for the Widow Blakely. The carriage it is currently on now is probably not correct either.



You're in luck! Craig Swain just posted a blog article that shows a period photo of the Widow Blakely. It looks to me like the Green plans are pretty close. http://markerhunter.wordpress.com/2013/05/28/blakely-7_5-inch-rifles/

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Barbette carriage plans
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2013, 06:03:30 PM »
     Apparently the wartime photo of the "Widow" was removed , because it was in dispute.  However, I agree that the Green plans are very close to what that type of ordnance would have used and was commonly built by Confederate forces during the war.  As for the cannons not being the same, DD, if you look closely at the close-up we took when we visited the Widow's current location in Vicksburg, you can see that the two match in every detail.  The upper cascabel is a spherical radius down to the neck of the breeching jaws with their pinned in place, insert.  The top of this pin can be seen of the old photo as well.  Skidmark is correct, the present carriage is certainly not correct.

Tracy


We took this photo on Feb. 21, 2013 at the Vicksburg National Military Park's Louisiana Circle where the original Widow Blakely tube is located, about one mile south of her wartime battery location.

Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Barbette carriage plans
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2013, 06:14:03 PM »
The period photo on the blog that did not match,  It showed a reinforcing band that extended to the cascabel and not set back as the  Blakely. 

The period picture posted on the blog was not Widow Blakely and has been pulled. The period picture that was posted was a banded rifle 32PDR of some sort per Craig.

Here is the picture that was pulled.  http://trrcobb.blogspot.com/2012/01/whistling-dick.html   

Offline The Jeff

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Re: Barbette carriage plans
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2013, 09:19:55 AM »
Bah, not sure how I missed the too long reinforcing band. I think I was concentrating too much on the stubby muzzle and blindly taking Craig's word for it.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Barbette carriage plans
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2013, 02:43:43 PM »
        You are right, Double D. there is quite a difference between the Widow Blakely and Whistling Dick.  The lengthy reinforce, the applied sight mount and the lack of an insert piece between the breeching jaws and the girth of the chase are all very different.  Wish I had been quick enough to see that image while it was up.  Here is a little history about the “Other”  cannon, unfortunately caught up in some scrap drive or heaved into the muddy Mississippi upon capitulation.

                                                            Whistling Dick’s most noted Accomplishment  from the Book,
                                                                                The Bugle Blast by E.S.S. Rouse
 
   ”On the 26 of May 1863, it was determined to make an attack on the Rebel batteries to the north of Vicksburg and opposite General Steel’s column.  The gunboat Cincinnati, Lieutenant Basche, was to co-operate and attempt to silence the water batteries, previous to the assault from the land side.  Accordingly, a little after 8:00 A.M., she began dropping down below Young’s Point.  When about two miles from Vicksburg, the famous gun, ‘Whistling Dick’, in position just north of the town, opened on her. 

     At first the aim was too high, and the balls passed over without doing any damage, but as the boat neared the batteries, it became more accurate, as the sound of the passing balls, growing sharper at every shot, clearly indicated. 

     In order to attack the upper batteries, it became necessary to drop below them, and round-to, with the head up stream.  This position was a most unfortunate one, as it exposed the vessel to a raking fire, from one battery in front and another from behind.  The first shot which struck her, hit the iron plating, and did no material damage.  But the Captain had given orders to push up to within 300 yards, and by the time she had reached that proximity, the shot hit her with fearful accuracy, generally passing directly through her port-holes.

     It was discovered that one ball had passed through the boat below the water line, and that the boat was sinking.  It was evident that to continue the fight longer, was to throw away the lives of the crew,  and orders were given to start up the river as fast as possible.  For three quarters of an hour she toiled, crippled, up stream;  while the enemy, seeing her condition, redoubled the fury of the cannonading.  More than fifty shot struck her before she reached the shore.  But Lieutenant Basche refused to allow the colors to be lowered, and she sunk like the Cumberland, with the Stars and Stripes still waving.”

Tracy
 
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Barbette carriage plans
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2013, 03:16:33 PM »
Actually,  Craig says that photo is not whistling Dick either but has been misidentified as such for years.

Offline MKlein

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Re: Barbette carriage plans
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2013, 03:20:33 PM »
Did they get off the boat or go down with it?
Is it true that Whistling Dick was rifled and used shells?
If so it whould be interesting if a top notch cannon maker could make a rifled shell that whistled. What a challenge!
 

Offline MKlein

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Re: Barbette carriage plans
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2013, 03:42:17 PM »
Here is a page that tells exactly where the Whistling Dick is, put on your frogman outfit.
http://madisondepot.com/dick.pdf
 
The two photos on this page look like the same gun except first one has scar in front of the trunion and the surroundings look very similiar.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Barbette carriage plans
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2013, 08:00:51 AM »
 

 Did they get off the boat or go down with it?
 Is it true that Whistling Dick was rifled and used shells?
 
 If so it would be interesting if a top notch cannon maker could make a rifled shell that whistled. What a challenge!     

 
      Most versions of this battle story mention that the Louisiana shore was reached before the Cincinnati sank. Most accounts agree that the ship was holed 50 times by Rebel gunners before she made the La. shore.  Although the carnage onboard was awful, most sailors escaped the ship, intact.  It appears few, if any, drowned.   This cannon was a conversion rifle which shot shells or bolts.  After Double D. mentioned that the picture long associated with the moniker, "Whistling Dick" may NOT actually be that famous rifled cannon after all, we began to research that sublect a bit and found several major discrepancies between the familiar image and  the written record describing the cannon from which she was supposedly converted to a rifled and banded gun.
 
      A top notch cannonmaker has already produced whistling shells and sells them; we bought one 10 years ago.  Most of you are familiar with PBO, Paulson Bros. Ordnance in Clearlake, Wisconsin.  They have a well stocked variety of display or shootable shells and bolts available.  The whistling or, more correctly, "humming" one which they sell is a copy of the bolts fired by the 12 Pdr. Whitworth Guns that were imported by the Confederacy from England and were used effectively by the Rebel gunners in North Carolina, Mississippi and elsewhere. 
 
      We are limiting our participation in the hijacking of this thread to this final posting.  We are including the mystery surrounding the identity and final disposition of the "Whistling Dick" Vicksburg cannon as item #1 in a new thread named, "Artillery Anomalies and Cannon Mysteries" coming out today.
 
 Tracy & Mike
 
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline MKlein

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Re: Barbette carriage plans
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2013, 09:46:49 AM »
We are still talking barbette as long as we can make an educated assumption that the Widow Blakely and Whistling Dick was on a barbette carriage. I wouldn't consider it hijacking which means to take over, you are basically adding to the overall picture of how barbette carriages were used during the battle of Vicksburg and the great story of the sinking of the Cincinnati which I'm sure more out there enjoy you narrations.
I might be stoping by Vicsburg on Saturday on my way to Wichita Falls Texas for a 3 week heat treating class. Any sugestions on must see's on the way or around Wichita Falls.

Offline Zulu

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Re: Barbette carriage plans
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2013, 10:17:46 AM »
We are still talking barbette as long as we can make an educated assumption that the Widow Blakely and Whistling Dick was on a barbette carriage. I wouldn't consider it hijacking which means to take over, you are basically adding to the overall picture of how barbette carriages were used during the battle of Vicksburg and the great story of the sinking of the Cincinnati which I'm sure more out there enjoy you narrations.
I might be stoping by Vicsburg on Saturday on my way to Wichita Falls Texas for a 3 week heat treating class. Any sugestions on must see's on the way or around Wichita Falls.

Wichita Falls?  This time of year?
Look for the nearest tornado shelter and a motel with the coldest air conditioning.  It will be hot!!! :o :o
Zulu The Texan
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