Author Topic: Caliber options (Read 1372 times)

flatlander · « **on:** February 16, 2004, 01:26:09 PM »

I'm kinda looking at getting a new barrel for the ol' Contender. I don't need it, but I'm looking at something different. I have a 7mm, 30 cal, .44 cal, and a 22 cal. I don't necessarily want to go up, but I'm looking for something in a 6mm or a 25 caliber (I might even do a 6.5). I'd like something fun and economical to shoot, but still with enough zip to possibly take out a deer out to 100 yards if I'm picky with my shot. Anyone have any experience with anything in this range to suggest? Thanks.

Catfish · « **Reply #1 on:** February 16, 2004, 02:01:05 PM »

Looks like you got the 100 yrd. deer gun covered. Why not move down and out. Get a .17 AH barrel. I push a 19 grn. Calhoon bullet to 3,600 fps. with 10.4 grns. of powder. Point blank, + or - 2 1/2 in. , to 290 yrds. Great little varmint round. If you don`t want a wildcat get a .204 Ruger barrel. I think that one of them has my name on it. :grin:

KYODE · « **Reply #2 on:** February 16, 2004, 02:04:00 PM »

6mm's, love em! shootin a 14" factory 6tcu right now(not at the moment

). i have also had a 15" 6x47 from bullberry.

6x45(6mm/.223), 6x47(6mm/.222mag), and 6tcu(.223 necked up and fireformed to improved shape). couldn't go wrong with any of those. as far as that goes, there is even a 6x47 improved.
a 80gr single shot pistol bullet will work great for deer at the range you mention.
the 6tcu is no problem to fireform, and form loads are just as accurate as in the formed case.
the 6x45 is a simple neck up, as is the 6x47, to 6mm from the .223, and 222mag cases.

my 6tcu does 2700fps with 80gr bullets in form loads with h335, and is accurate! in the formed case, i'm shootin 70gr sierra blitzkings with imr 4198 at 2730fps with great accuracy also.

Bim · « **Reply #3 on:** February 16, 2004, 05:27:35 PM »

Catfish took the words outa my mouth.
Bim

fish · « **Reply #4 on:** February 16, 2004, 05:35:14 PM »

Try one of the 25 cal. I have a 15" 250 Savage from JDJones and SSK Industries. It will shoot way better than I can. I have taken 2 antelope over 200 yards ( the one this year was later ranged at 251 yds.) and several hogs at that distance. It is a high pressure round and not many makers will chamber them in a Contender. I have been looking for a G2 frame to use with this barrel only, but then I may as well go with an Encore. The 25's are shooters but then are most of them. That is why it is so much fun to have several favorites.

Hopalong7 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2004, 08:06:16 AM »

Flatlander, We talked about the "need" for more barrels last week. We ALL need more barrels. I have some ridiculous number but I still need one more. I've spent some time in Kansas and I would have to have a .223 or .17somethin' just for those wide open spaces. And like KYODE
said a 6mm would fit in too. GOOD SHOOTIN', Walt :-D :-D :-D

BTW, My youngest son is a proud Wildcat grad.

haroldclark · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2004, 03:13:25 PM »

Last week, a friend of mine brought out his 14" 6mm TCU (223) loaded with 90 grain bullets. We were shooting on the Rifle Silhouette Range. He could hit 200 meter chickens, 300 meter pigs and 385 meter turkeys at will. He ran out of ammo by the time we finished the turkeys.

I was impressed and my need for one has been developed.

Harold Clark

flatlander · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2004, 02:35:42 AM »

Well, it looks like a 6 TCU if I'm going to go with a 6mm. What 25 caliber options are out there for the contender? Will the 256 Win Mag do the job or do I need to go to something more custom like a 25X30-30 or is there a better option? Why do you think the 25 cal rounds haven't taken hold in the contenders?

KYODE · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2004, 02:46:57 AM »

.257tcu, 25/30-30(you mention), and i've seen 250savage owners around. 250savage improved possibly too. maybe all custom options :?
good question :? i've never owned a 25 anything, for no particular reason.

haroldclark · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2004, 06:10:18 AM »

I own a 256 Win mag. in a 10" TC. While I really like the little beast, it is a tad bit on the puny side for deer out to 100 yards. The little Win Mag. will produce 1974 fps from a 15" barrel with a 100 grain bullet.

The 257 TCU is interesting. Last month, I had occasion to shoot one made by Vern Jenke. Beautifully gun, but it was a fire breathing and bucking dragon. I shoot a 7mm TCU that didn't buck and snort as much. I don't understand why, either.

A 250 Savage Ackley Improved was mentioned. I just ran it in Quickload Software and it is interesting.
You can push a 120-grain Speer spire point boat tailed bullet with 35.6 gr. of BL-C2 at 2340 fps. From a 15" barrel, 97.64% of the powder would completely burn in the barrel at 45,461 PSI pressure which is well below the suggested max for a TC Contender.

The 6mm TCU with a 100-grain SPBT Speer with 23.3 gr. IMR3031 at 2365 fps is impressive too.

Now, I'm going to expand the horizons a bit with the 7mm TCU that provides a heavier bullet. As with all the TCU cartridges, 223 cases are simply expanded with the sizing die and shoot it to fire form. The 7TCU doesn't care if the cases are fire formed or not for acceptable accuracy to begin with.
Load: 120 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip with 20.2 grains of H4223 provides 2215 fps with 99.86% powder burning in the barrel. The pressure is 47,500 PSI.
I shoot mostly 140 and 162-grain bullets at 2000 fps. I can head shoot 500 meter Rams with either bullet. It will not take a hard-set 55-pound steel ram over all the time, but occasionally it does with a headshot.

The range of bullets in the 7mm are much greater that the smaller calibers. The range is from 60 grains to 162 grains with a 9" twist.

Just a thought.

Harold Clark

flatlander · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2004, 06:56:51 AM »

I think that I'm going to be looking for a 6 or 6.5 TCU. I need something new to play with, I guess. Are the TCU barrels better in 14 inch rather than 10?

KYODE · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2004, 10:47:50 AM »

i much prefer 14" barrels, but don't mind packin them, and have little difficulty shooting them. others views may differ.

haroldclark · « **Reply #12 on:** February 19, 2004, 10:41:40 AM »

I agree that the 6mm TCU will be better in a 14" barrel.

I have a 10" 7mm TCU and it is my favorite for cast bullets with reduced loads, but my 14" is the one that I turn to for serious ranging.

I have a buddy that finally just wore out his 10" 7mm TCU and we have all be glad to see it. Thompson replaced it with a 14". The 10" with the load required to take down any steel targets was loud and it kicked to the point that every once in a while, my buddy would start flinching and miss everything. He thought his gun was bad, but I would shoot it and it was fine. He was just flinching.

He is much happier with the 14" barrel. Of course, we don't have to pack the gun around except 20 feet from the vehicle to the firing line.

Harold Clark

HHI-7420 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 20, 2004, 03:54:36 PM »

Harold C., from what I've heard your pressures (45,161 & 47,500 psi) are HIGH for a Contender. Have you looked over your shoulder to see if there is a figure dressed in white with wings walking along behind you? I could easily be wrong, but it seems that's what I've heard. Head size for the 7mmTCU may make it ok, but not so sure for the 250 Sav.AI- what about it GB? Pat :money:

haroldclark · « **Reply #14 on:** February 20, 2004, 06:36:33 PM »

Hello Pat,

Let us examine the following statement: Load: 120 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip with 20.2 grains of 4227 provides 2215 fps with 99.86% powder burning in the barrel. The pressure is 47,500 PSI. The top loading listed in the book is 22.5 grains with that bullet. Too much pressure with that load, but no angels appeared.

The 20.2 grain load is within the mid-range parameters from the Nosler Reloading manual with their bullet. The pressure was calculated by entering the data for the load into Neco QuickLoad Computer Software. Neco advises not to use their findings exclusively due to civil suit reasons. I find that Neco is very reasonable and accurate enough for developing loads. Thompson Center advises that Contender users keep the pressure at or below 48,000 PSI. The load above is within those requirements.

Bear in mind that each firearm varies slightly with chamber size and throat depth. The Over All Length of the cartridge can increase the pressure drastically by seating the bullet deeper than the recommended OAL. I always make sure that I seat the bullet deep enough that there is at least a Bullets Diameter of the bearing surface in the case neck to help align the bullet. In the scenario that we are discussing, I seat the boat tail bullet at least .4 into the neck with the .284 bullet. Depending on the Throat in the chamber, the bullet may have to be seated deeper.

If the bullet is seated deeper, then the powder charge may have to be adjusted to keep the pressure within the proper range. I always start below a suggested load and work my way up to the level of power I want.

In 1999, I developed a Shooting Records database and prior to that I have 3 notebooks (3 rings) full of my data entered manually since 1971.

I checked my database for the number of 7mm TCU rounds that I have loaded since 10/9/99 and the sum is 6,535 cartridges. I still have over 500 on hand. 6,000 plus rounds have been fired in the last few years. My angels are always watching over me, for sure. I have blown up 2 rifles in the past 3 years, but never a Contender or an Encore.

My database totals up to 38,831 total cartridges loaded and expended since 10/9/99 to this day in which I shot another 100 plus rounds and 50 of those were 7mm TCU loads with the Hornady 162 gr. A-max with 25.6 grains of WWC 844 Military Surplus Powder (Same as H335) with an OAL of 2.719. The pressure reading is 49,647 PSI and there were no pressure signs on the Winchester Small Rifle Primers nor on the brass..

What else can I say?

If you have any more questions, please feel free to discuss them.

Harold Clark

skb2706 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2004, 06:30:02 AM »

how about a 6mm 30-30 , brass is plentiful, bullets of all kinds, not alot of loading info but enough to handle all the common bullet weights, rimmed cases, easy to form and wicked accurate. Dies can be a problem but you only buy them once.

haroldclark · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2004, 07:02:12 AM »

The 6mm/30-30 sounds interesting. However, there is a slight matter of over bore and case capacity for a 14 to 15" barrel. The issue comes about with enough barrel length to burn most of the powder and obtain a satisfactory gain for the additional powder cost.

Another consideration is the barrel life and particularly at the throat. With the diminutive, but efficient, 6mm TCU cartridge and a 60 grain bullet, you can obtain 2900 fps for varmits and 2300 fps with a 100 gr spbt. The slower loading will not have much effect upon the throating for many thousands of rounds.

I would like to look at the data that you refer to on the 6mm/30-30. Where might I look?

Harold Clark

haroldclark · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2004, 07:32:06 AM »

I forgot about mentioning the 25-35 Winchester cartridges. A guy is looking for one in the TC Classified adds and sparked the ole memory. When I first went to work at San Quentin Prison in California in circa 1957 I was assigned to a tower on the wall. I was assigned at Winchester rifle in that caliber with the saddle ring. A loop shoulder strap was attached to the saddle ring. The rifle could not be removed from your person during your 8-hour tour of duty.

I never shot it in the prison, but I saw the little gem fired a number of times into concrete in the "Big Yard" to break up a ruckus between prisoners. The guard would fire from about 40 feet above the concrete and the crater created in the concrete would be 2 inches deep and 3 inches in diameter (cone shaped). The concrete would act like a grenade with shrapnel flying in 360 degrees and knee high. That distracted the crap out of the fight. I was impressed with the cartridge.

In 1973, shortly after the 25-06 was legitimatized as a factory cartridge, I bought a 25-06 in a Ruger Model 77 varmint. The throat is nearly gone in it now.

Harold Clark

flatlander · « **Reply #18 on:** February 21, 2004, 01:36:16 PM »

I've never really dealt with the 25-35 before. Can you tell me what it is like, the general case size and ballistics it gives? Is it based off of a common cartridge, or do you have a hassle finding brass and dies?

haroldclark · « **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2004, 02:16:40 PM »

http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=180

Look at the above URL for a picture of the 25-35 Win. It is smaller in diameter than the 30-30 and has much more of a taper on the case to the neck. It has a case capacity of 20 to 25 grains of powder.

Look around on the web site above and they list a number of bullets used and the velocities achieved.

I don't know what bullet weight was used at Quentin nor the velocity.

The cartridge was originally a black powder item. 25 caliber with 35 grains of black powder.

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #20 on:** February 22, 2004, 06:17:24 AM »

Harold, you a wealth of knowledge. I totally enjoy your posts and learn much about the different rounds out there. Thank you for this.

Oh yeah, please don't stop! :wink:

Your friend,
Larry