Poll On Wolves In Montana

[Three44s]

Poll on wolves in Montana:




http://helenair.com/news/opinion/should-montana-expand-its-wolf-hunting-season-to-six-and/poll_feab4212-b373-11e2-b199-0019bb2963f4.html?fb_action_ids=438177249612330&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_ref=.UZQYvTGjG3E.send&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582






We are currently losing due to Californians racing to vote on it .........


Time to show our colors!!!




Three 44s

[Oldshooter]

 I liked this comment   

  Personally I think Wyoming has a better plan... issue a shoot on sight directive. Then start cutting trees down so they're easier to see. You bunny huggers need to lose the holier than thou liberal attitudes, there is nothing beautiful about wolf killing a man's livestock. There is nothing beautiful about a wolf decimating the elk population in Yellowstone . The introduction of these wolves was illegal in every shape form and fashion. They are not the species that was here, making them an invasive species. As such they should be eradicated. 

[rickt300]

Introducing wolves into the elk country I used to hunt in (wolves ate most of em) was Clintons biggest crime. The only relief I get is that he is married to Hillary which just might be hard enough on him. He is still going to hades though.

[BAGTIC]

The wolves are the same species as were there originally.
Yellowstone is federal property and it is for the federal government to manage not the locals.

[rickt300]

Well then why are the wolves ranging down into Colorado and Kansas now? Federal property? So we are paying taxes to have our elk herd managed out of use by the wolves? The wolf was trapped and hunted almost to extinction for good reason. What the states said all along was right and has happened. The federal lands are our lands not some playground for leftist projects.

[guzzijohn]

December of 2012 was the first documented wolf sighting (actually it was shot and Killed) in Kansas since the early 20th century. So I would not yet conclude that wolves are established in Kansas. However KDPW denied the presence of mountian lions in Kansas for quite a few years until recently. In spite of that I have heard of or talked to a number of people including my wife that have seen lions in Kansas in recent years. I have not heard or talked to anyone that has seen a wolf and the only sighting I know of is the one above. That one was an Eastern Great Lakes Grey Wolf.
GuzziJohn

[Three44s]

The wolves are the same species as were there originally.
Yellowstone is federal property and it is for the federal government to manage not the locals.

The wolves brought in were a different subspecies!  They wiped out the truely native wolf subspecies.The subspecies that was wiped out formed packs on the order of 4 to 6 individuals and weighed around 75-80 #

The invasive wolf that wiped them out forms packs of many more individuals and weighs much more.

Now, the last time I checked:  Yellowstone does not cover the entire "Louisiana purchase" ........ so, I must assume the Feds need to gather a lot of planted wolves, tell them to stay "home" and also pay damages for their indescresions!!


Three 44s

[scootrd]

The federal lands are our lands not some playground for leftist projects.

Unless of course big oil companies want to lease 'em and Drill on 'em , then suddenly they are not "our lands".

[rickt300]

Thats right Scooter, then there is work and roads into the backcountry.

[Oldshooter]

I dont understand why folk dont want wolves introduced where they have been eliminated by ranchers, farmers and hunters. All they want to do is come here for a better life and do the jobs that our lazy dogs dont want to do. They just want to make a living.

[brettcar]

I went through Yellowstone a couple years ago. I wanted to see deer, sheep, goats, and Elk. I did not see any of these animals. Park employees bragged about how they had more than 5,000 wolves there. How many animals do 5,000 wolves eat? If a pack of 10 wolves eat 1 animal per week, that's 500 animals per week. 50 wolves eating 1 animal each week is still 5,200 animals per year & I think they eat much more than that. No wonder we didn't see any animals other than Buffalo. I will never go back to Yellowstone. They have already ruined it by not controlling the wolf population.

[rickt300]

The wolves have done the ecosystem in Wyoming and Montana a hard blow. A lot of elk have moved out into the wide open to make it easier to outrun the wolves I guess. Hunting open desert isn't as easy as you would think either.

[Mikey]

Bagtic - you're wrong and Three44s is right.  These are not the same wolves that were originally in the Yellowstone or in that area.  The current wolf population was imported down from Alaska and they came with their own diseases.  If you go to the Montana forum and read down the posts about the wolves, you will read that peta and the other critter friendly idiots knowingly imported these wolves while knowing they carried viruses that attack many more living creatures, including man, than does their natural predation. 
 
I don't think it matters if it is Montana or Wyoming or Colorado or kalifornika, if the wolves in those places were those bred from stock brought down from Alaska, they need to be controlled and restricted and Montana has a smart way of dealing with them - the state lets the famers and ranchers deal with them when they are seen near livestock. 
 
And as for trying to satisfy the nature of the wolf by placating them with free food, like roadkill elk and the like - it is pure folly.  The wolves appreciate the free eats because they don't have to expend the energy necessary to bring down their own game but that does not stop them from either pack killing or the decimation of cattle herds or the Elk.  I think those states have the right idea - satisfy the nature of the wolf to kill or be killed, and use a 30-06......

[Anna]

In this state the Mexican wolf was reintroduced into the wild. For the longest time they were getting
the blame for what the coyotes or the cougars were doing and always have. A Mexican wolf is not
big enough to bring down a full grown steer, or mess with the younger cattle, they stick to rabbits and foraging. The stupid buzzards cause more problems than anything else.
A buzzard will attack a living animal and if it isn't already dead, they will help it along to become dead.
Sheep ranchers will give you the green light to come on their land and take care of that problem.
As long as you don't forget about the porcupines also. 
 

[BAGTIC]

Mikey,
Three44s  original post said SPECIES, not subspecies.  'Subspecies' status is political balderdash. Notice how elk (wapiti) no longer exist. They are now all red deer. All brown bears from Europe to Kodiak to grizzlies are now one species. When wapiti from the Rockies were exported to New Zealand with its cool rainy climate they quickly mutated to a form resembling the elk 'subspecies' of the Pacific Northwest.
If the present wolves behave differently that those of old it is because they are in a different habitat than the originals.
 
No, everywhere in the West is not federal territory but a Hell of a lot is. Look at all the federal lands. No I would agree that if wolves leave those federal lands and cause trouble there should be some control of specific troublemakers. I do not oppose killing some wolves any more than I oppose killing some game. I just don't see the need to exterminate either. Too often on these boards we hear the word 'We" used in a very exclusive sense as when someone say federal lands are our lands and WE want this or that. Well federal lands are the People's lands, all the people, not just hunters, fishers, ranchers, lumbermen. Yup, those city people who may live half way across the country are US too. Very few people are dependent on wild game for their subsistence. Let's face it for most of us hunting is a hobby, a sport. and in a democracy it doesn't have any higher priority that bird watching whether we like it or not. Adopting an ''in your face' attitude of 'it's mine and your hands off of it' isn't going to win many friends and friends and allies are what we need. In an ever more populous and urbanized society hunters and fishers will inevitably become an increasing minority.

[rickt300]

Mikey,
Three44s  original post said SPECIES, not subspecies.  'Subspecies' status is political balderdash. Notice how elk (wapiti) no longer exist. They are now all red deer. All brown bears from Europe to Kodiak to grizzlies are now one species. When wapiti from the Rockies were exported to New Zealand with its cool rainy climate they quickly mutated to a form resembling the elk 'subspecies' of the Pacific Northwest.
If the present wolves behave differently that those of old it is because they are in a different habitat than the originals.
 
No, everywhere in the West is not federal territory but a Hell of a lot is. Look at all the federal lands. No I would agree that if wolves leave those federal lands and cause trouble there should be some control of specific troublemakers. I do not oppose killing some wolves any more than I oppose killing some game. I just don't see the need to exterminate either. Too often on these boards we hear the word 'We" used in a very exclusive sense as when someone say federal lands are our lands and WE want this or that. Well federal lands are the People's lands, all the people, not just hunters, fishers, ranchers, lumbermen. Yup, those city people who may live half way across the country are US too. Very few people are dependent on wild game for their subsistence. Let's face it for most of us hunting is a hobby, a sport. and in a democracy it doesn't have any higher priority that bird watching whether we like it or not. Adopting an ''in your face' attitude of 'it's mine and your hands off of it' isn't going to win many friends and friends and allies are what we need. In an ever more populous and urbanized society hunters and fishers will inevitably become an increasing minority.

Well if that is what makes you happy keep clapping for the wolf and watch it decimate the elk herds. If this is what you want why are you posting on this forum? The government is ours, we support it. Federal land is ours not the governments. Your mindset is what is wrong with our country.

[scootrd]

Well if that is what makes you happy keep clapping for the wolf and watch it decimate the elk herds.

Decimate?
Why is everything cited in the extreme.

A decrease in elk populations is not necessary a bad thing. Everything needs to be taken in context.

The elk population in Yellowstone for example before the reintroduction of wolves were outsized and starting to take a toll on the environment denuding everything.  A properly managed wolf population strikes natural order and balance into an ecosystem.

The key words are "properly managed".

You don't fault the dog for being a "bad" dog. You need to fault the dog owner.
You don't fault the wolf for being a wolf , you fault the improperly managed program .
it's not one extreme or the other , its striking a proper balance.

Just my two cents.....

[rickt300]

I say decimate! I have seen what the wolves have done and there is no denying it. The Wolves do not "manage" the elk herds they kill all they want and do some killing for no more than a few bites. Yellowstone had no elk management plan, reintroducing wolves was a stupid move and yes they have greatly reduced the elk in Yellowstone and also on large amounts of land all around Yellowstone. If you have hunted and traveled the same land for 20 years you notice these things. You probably believe coyotes don't kill deer.