Percussion and then flint, why?

[alan in ga]

I've never shot a flint rifle. Always wanted the more positive ignition of a cap.
However, I see many if you go with a sparky rock and don't turn back.
What makes you prefer to shoot flinters?

Yeah, I'm thinking I'll start looking for one : )

[necchi]

It's the next level of challenge.
And another thing that lends satisfaction when mastered.
 
Kinda like drinking, anyone can do it with Beer,
It's just another level when you look forward too and get the job done with Makers Mark.

[JonnyReb]

 I bought a couple flints over the years, mainly cause i like the look of them better than percussian, and it was something new to try. If they're primed right they work just as well as a percussian but are more touchy for sure. Its all about knowing your equipment like the back of your hand, know it well and it'll work well, however, i buy most all my ML's with the idea of using them for deer hunting, and if a gun is iffy about discharging i darned sure don't want to blow a shot just because my flint didn't spark, or something like that. So i don't really want a flint for hunting at this stage of my life. I'm sticking to percussion for now, and tell myself i'm gonna wait till i'm older before i pick up another flint rifle to use . When i have more time and hopefully more patience.

  On the other hand, i've been finding myself studying those kit guns from Track of the wolf and TV, and if i ordered one i'd definitely order it as a flint, figuring by the time i finished it i'd be old and patient like i was sayin...

[pastorp]

Jeff,
Not sure patience is a age thing. Some just like to do things slower.  like smoking a pipe, or hunting with a muzzleloader to begin with. Some folks just take the path less traveled.

I've gone up & down the scale of difficulty several times. Modern rifles to muzzle loaders to archery & back again with all the different degrees of difficulty in each category. Even tried hog hunting with dogs & a sticker. Of course I'm beyond that now but when I was young. You get the idea.

Call it challenge or temperament as you will but its all fun. 

Regards,

[Nobade]

Just more interesting. I prefer the sensation of the firing cycle of a flint gun, as well as not having to buy caps to get it to fire. Once you learn how to really make them work they are extremely reliable.

[flintlock]

The first thing I'm going to do is disagree with you, but don't take offense, hear me out...
 
If you are comparing factory built flint rifles with factory made percussion they I guess you are right, percussion is more reliable...
 
I have never owned a percussion, nor have any desire to...
I  have never owned a factory made flintlock, nor have any desire to...
 
I bought my first muzzleloader in 1977, a custom made flintlock from Bob Watts in Stone Mountain, GA when I was 23...I have used this rifle ever since and it is deadly accurate and very reliable...
 
I build a .54 caliber flintlock in the late 80s and have killed at least 50 deer with it, never had it not go off while hunting...Ignition is very quick and with 80grs FFF Goex I have dropped deer in their tracks out to 125 yards...The ball almost always exits and leaves a nice blood trail for tracking if needed...
 
Both of these rifles have cut rifling .015 deep for shooting round balls...Most factory built guns have shallow, button rifling about .006 deep...This is why they can be finicky as far as ball/patch combination and powder charges...
 
My .40 is acccurate with 25-70grs FFF Goex...The .54 with 40-120grs FFF Goex...Both have Siler locks and send a good shower of sparks into the pan...Both have coned touch holes located at the sunrise position so you can fill the pan and not fill the touch hole with powder...
 
With both, if your powder is dry and your flint sharp they are going off...Fast, reliable, accurate...
 
The problem with factory flinters, often the touch hole is not located properly, the frizzen is too soft or hard, the main spring and frizzen spring have to be tempered properly as they work together...The barrels aren't the deep cut rifling you have on custom guns, etc...
 
So, if looking at a factory built flintlock the only two I would consider would be T/C or Lyman...I would want to inspect it first to see that the touch hole is in the proper position and see that the flint sparked reliably with black English flints...
 
Better yet...Save your money and order a high end kit from Jim Chambers...
 
Remember, the flintlock ignition system was invented around 1600 in France...It was in constant use for almost 250 years, right up to the beginning of the Civil War, longer than any other ignition system available...
 
It's all Daniel Boone ever knew...It's what Lewis & Clark carried across the country and even though David Crockett was given a percussion rifle at Philadelphia during his tour in that area, he elected to carry his reliable flintlock to Texas....

[JonnyReb]

 Sure enjoyed reading your post Flintlock, and with my own inexperience i can only defer to you and all who "know" what their guns can do. Certainly i don't feel offended only enlightened. Maybe i should get a start on my retirement years and look for one of those well built customs now.. your post about talked me into it matter of fact   

  Pastorp i know what you mean by those levels of difficulty you speak of and am on my 2nd go-round myself of Bow and Muzzleloader, i do draw the line at sharpened sticks and boar hogs however.. I am a firm believer in self preservation. .   Sounds like you've experienced great results from your flintlocks as well, same as Nobades post. I hereby withdraw myself from the controversy, my brief experiences with a mid 70's TC Hawken and one Renegade with a GM barrel doesn't count for much. Looking back, i realize the touchhole on at least one of those two WAS in the wrong place, you had to heap powder up to the hole and if the powder got bumped off to the right it wouldn't fire. You could target shoot with it but i'd have never bother hunting it. Guess it gave me iffy experiences and therefore became my slanted view on this subject.

  Thanks Alan for posting this thread, good to broaden ones horizons and i'm glad to have another future rifle to keep my eyes open for.  Jeff

 

[flintlock]

Well, I don't want to influence a fellow on spending more money, but a nice flintlock would make a good retirement gift...
 
 

[flintlock]

Older gents can get by with dressing up in colonial clothing and looking like a fool...
 

[flintlock]

And, you will never have another ammo supply shortage....
 
 

[quickdtoo]

Older gents can get by with dressing up in colonial clothing and looking like a fool...
 

Yup, sometimes more than others!! 

Tim

[JonnyReb]

Older gents can get by with dressing up in colonial clothing and looking like a fool...
 

Yup, sometimes more than others!! 

Tim

   To anyone unknowing of your sport, i have to say ya'll are jawdropping

 I just spent the last week or two on Historic Correct sites and i see how much time and effort you guys put into your clothes and rifles, a LOT i know. I had no idea the scope of the sport until just recently. Looks like a heck of a good time and i love the idea of slipping through the fall woods in Mocs but i wouldn't wanna hunt outta town and wear my buckskins on the trip there and back.

 Siimply phenominal buck and rifle picture Flintlock, something about that era rifle, bag and buck that stirs you like no other style rifle or weapon replacing it could.  Great pics.

[pastorp]

Jeff,

The sticker I spoke of was a Randall #1 , 7" blade. But that was years ago. The dogs were no ordinary trail hounds but pit bulls that we used as catch dogs. You usually got one thrust and if you cut the  aorta off the heart they bleed out in seconds. If not, well things got interesting real fast. Of course I was young and strong and tough as nails, weren't we all. And afraid of nothing. Looking back its amazing I lived through all that foolishness. Many of my friends didn't.

Just to be correct I have never fired a flintlock always bypassing that phase of black powder. As I by passed all the imitation black propellants. But I did manage a lifetime membership in the Jedieah Smith chapter of the Frontier Camping Fellowship a national origination promoting the A/G boys clubs and mountain man lifestyle. Imagine & all with a cap lock.   

[pastorp]

I will say I really want a custom Fowler. I'm seriously considering selling all my cap locks and spare center fires to finance the project. If I do it will be a flinter of course.  in probably 20 ga. Maybe 16.

[pastorp]

So Flintlock,
From your posts over the years it sounds like you have one 243 rifle & these 2 flintlocks. & you've done all your hunting with these. Wow, maybe I started on the wrong end of things. That sure is a pretty long rifle.

[SHOOTALL]

flint is easier to come by    might be a real deal changer in the future depending on your take on the future.

[flintlock]

Not all my hunting is done with flintlocks and my .243, they won't let me hunt turkeys with my .40 so I have to use my Browning B-80...
 
I also love to squirrel hunt and have a Remington 541-T and a 552 that I bought when I was 16...
 
I even own a Knight...Funny, hasn't been loaded in the past 3 years...

[necchi]

I even own a Knight..

 
That'll be Three Hail Mary's and Four Our fathers!!

[JonnyReb]

 Just for the record..i sold my inlines last years.
 Byron i'm with you on the fowler, been kicking that one around for a year or so myself, admiring them if not actively searching for one. Don't think i'd wanna try this in a flint either, seems percussion would be more suitable for overhead pass shooting on the dove field or duck blind, but then again what do i know.
 
  Those hog hunts sound pretty intense, a bit too intense for me but 20 years ago, even less, i'd have given it a try. I think i'd take the randall over a flintlock, faster reloading
                                                                                                                 j

 

[flintlock]

I bought the Knight because I was having problems seeing the open sights on my flinters, thought my days hunting with them were done...I've worn corrective lenses since I was 7, I'm now 57...
 
Well, about 12 years ago I had a detached retina in my right eye...Thankfully, it was fixed by laser surgery...Three years ago I had cataract surgery, the dang laser sending all that energy through my lens is what caused it...
 
Dangest thing...I had both eyes repaired and now I see better than I ever had in my life...I do need reading glasses but I opened up the rear sights on my flintlocks and found I shoot pretty well...Not well enough to shoot in competition but well enough to hunt with them...
 
No more hard contact lenses, my night vision is great and I see 20/20 without glasses...It was a true blessing...So, after a few years of having to leave my flintlocks at home, I'm back to using them...
 
I'm Happy...Happy...Happy!!!

[pastorp]

FL,  eye doctor told me several years ago I was developing cataract on my right eye. Guess I need to get that taken care of. My solution has just been to hunt more with a shotgun. 

Guess that's why I'm liking the idea of a fowler.

[alan in ga]

Hey, do you guys wear EYE protection with flinters? Is there ever any face burn [sparks] experienced? I wear eye protection almost always but wondered about a flinter.
Guess I gotta try one.

[necchi]

Yes, but the flame doesn't come back to ya, it's rock chips that might break off as the flint hit's steel.
Most of the flame goes out the side, it's the guy standing to your right that catches the brunt of the debris.

[flintlock]

Except for wearing sunglasses, I don't wear eye protection...It's never been a problem...I figure if they didn't do it 200 years ago, why worry about it now??

[Nobade]

Hey, do you guys wear EYE protection with flinters? Is there ever any face burn [sparks] experienced? I wear eye protection almost always but wondered about a flinter.
Guess I gotta try one.

I am glad I do! Last time out shooting my flintlock Renegade, I noticed a spot on my glasses. Looked more carefully and there was a small piece of rock embedded in the lense! It left a dent...I am sure glad it wasn't my eyeball.

[necchi]

Except for wearing sunglasses, I don't wear eye protection...It's never been a problem...I figure if they didn't do it 200 years ago, why worry about it now??

Yeah, you can even wear a cool eye patch like they did back then too. Just practice saying;
EIIiii, and ARRRrrr a bunch, you'll fit right in with the Historically Correct.
 

[flintlock]

That would work, especially since I graduated from East Carolina!!!

[Co. Batguano]

Flint is just another step up the learning curve.  They are just as reliable and almost as fast as percussion, but there is more to pay attention to.  Make sure your flash hole is clear, your pan dry and clear of fouling, your flint sharp and properly aligned, pan powder of a proper amount and distributed correctly.  And always always always use real black powder.  No substitutes!  The flash point for substitutes is closer to 800 degrees, and BP is in the mid 400's.