357 Max data

[RiverHawk]

Does anyone have published data for the max and 22 inch barrels ?, I am of the old school I guess, I like to see it published and the reduce 10% and go from there. With all the loads being discussed here, I can't find any except for 10 and 14 inch Contender barrels.
 I see the loads for the 357 magnum and 21 grains of H110 is way over the line for 357 magnum rifle and the 158 gr bullet.( speer # 13 ) I am wondering if  the pressure is safe in 22 inch barrels 357 max with that data. (21 grains H110 180 gr bullet)
  If anyone has info it will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

[Badnews Bob]

Hey River Hawk That load is a .357 Maximum load not a .357Mag. I don't even think it would fit in a .357mag case, But to answer your question I haven't found anything on rifle loads for a Max I have just been useing pistol loads, I'm happy so far with no high pressure signs and some good accuratecy. This thing had to be a hand cannon in a pistol.

[RiverHawk]

BB, I know that was a 357 maximum load, what I was trying to find was a starting load for the NEF 22 inch barrel 357 maximum. By looking at the speer #13 reloading book I find that the 357 magnum case will hold 23 grains of H110 and a 125 gr bullet. This is a compressed load. That means the case is full.
 A 357 mag rifle that is reamed to 357 max is still a NEF 357 magnum rifle, manufactured for that round and one would assume tested for that round. Has it been tested for pressures generated by the 357 Max ?
 The part that I want to know is, will the NEF rifle take the pressure ? Considering the fact that, 1. Pressure is going up for 25 % more powder.
 2. Pressure is going up for heavier bullet weight, 158 compared to 180 grains.3. The NEF was manufactured with freebore to relieve pressure, In reboring and elimanating freebore or most of it, causes pressure to go up.4. Longer barrels, rifle barrels compared to pistol barrels, causes pressure to go up with the same loads.
 I am not trying to rain on anyones parade, I was around the mt forum for a while and have been following the 357 maxi project. All I was asking for is published data to use in mine. I feel without published data, I would be breaking new ground and breaking new ground is like loading in 3D. Disability, Dismemberment and Dirt naps.
Just my opinion, everyone has one.

[Badnews Bob]

Good deal River Hawk seems like you know more about it than I do, I'm always trying to learn. I have been looking for rifle info on the max and I havn't found anything yet, I will keep trying thanks for your info.

[BIGBOREFAN]

RiverHawk I have never seen any data on the 357 max in a rifle. I started with 19 grains of H-110 and a 180 XTP. I have to rifles in the max. My Lee manual says 1694 FPS in a 10'' pistol. I started with it because there is no rifle data. In theory I should have reduced that load 10% and tried it before going to the 19 grains, but also read somewere not to go below the minimum. I shot a couple and there was no pressure signs. I loaded up 5 with 19.5 grains H-110. Will shot them and see if there are any pressure signs. The max load for the 357 max is 21 grains H-110 with a 180 grain bullet in a pistol and never thought about a longer barrel upping the pressure. Leftoverdj and 308 said to work up slowly half grain at a time. Myself I am new to reloading and to the max. I have read a good bit about it. DJ is the most knowledgeable person here on the max in my opinion. You might send him a PM. I just want to hit 2000 FPS with a 180 XTP and the 19 grains of H-110 should do that for me. If you find any published data in rifle form please share it I would like to see it myself.


BBF

[.308]

 A 357 mag rifle that is reamed to 357 max is still a NEF 357 magnum rifle, manufactured for that round and one would assume tested for that round. Has it been tested for pressures generated by the 357 Max ?
 The part that I want to know is, will the NEF rifle take the pressure ?

Mr. RiverHawk, I did a little looking but can't find any 'rifle' data for the Max only 'pistol' data. But I went to the following website 'Accurate Arms' and looked at their data for the Mag. and the Max. and the pressures they publish are very close to one another. If you have the time you may wanna take a look, if you haven't already. Looks to me like if the Handi in .357 mag will take 40K+ cup then it ought to take 40K+ in the Max. :wink:

http://www.accuratearms.com/loaddata_caliber_handgun_standard_357cal.htm

[RiverHawk]

Fellas, I guess its a question of who do you trust, a topic of discussion on another board. I have been trusting Speer for quite some time, I don't say it is the best or anything. I started with the Speer reloading book # 8 published in 1970.
 I would just like to say that in reloading it is better safe than sorry. I will be looking for reloads for the maximum.
 By the way, the speer # 13 book says that 35000 psi is the normal industry standard for the 357 magnum round.
Everyone have a good day!! Just my:money:

[RiverHawk]

My last post should have read at the end: Just my two cents and the emoticon did not show up.

[BIGBOREFAN]

RiverHawk 35000 psi is stardard. The link 308 gave you says that the standard for 357 magnum is 35000 psi or (45000 CUP) and the max is 48000 CUP. You are right. It is a matter of who you trust and it is far better to be safe than sorry.


BBF

[Leftoverdj]

Pressures for Max in a 22" barrel will be very close to the same as pressures for a 10" or 14" pistol barrel. The pressure will have reached its peak and begun to decline before the bullet travels 10". For that matter, allowable pressures for the Max are about the same as the allowable pressures for the Mag. The longer case merely allows us use big doses of slow (for a pistol cartridge) powders in them and the rifle length barrel wastes less of the gases from those charges.

As to the strength of the rifle itself, H&R offered the .357 Max before the bankruptcy in the somewhat weaker action of that time. I ordered one at a closeout price. My invoice said it was .357 Max, the box said it was .357 Max, the stamping and the chamber said it was .357 Mag. I merely corrected what I saw as a factory error, and have been happily shooting that rifle as a .357 Max for something over 15 years.

Even that older version was also offered in .223 which has the same headsize and operates at nearly 10,000 CUP than the Max. The current SB-2 action is good for 55,000 CUP in the much bigger .30-06 headsize. The chamber area of the Handi is massive, far bigger than the shanks of many bolt action rifles, so I don't fear barrel failure, either.

Btw, your questions are perfectly reasonable. I asked myself exactly the same before I rechambered mine and again before I got involved in the current project.

[22KHornet]

I have my doubts that you will find any rifle reloading data for the max.  As far as I know the only companies to chamber a carbine for the max was contender and H&R.  As for the handi rifle being able to handle the max I would have to say yes.  My reason is bassically based on the fact that the handi rifle used to be chambered in the max.  I would work up on the handgun charges, I can tell you that the max ends up with alot of unburned powder when fired from a 10" contender barrel.  :?

[JPH45]

RiverHawk, there are several places around that have 357 Maximum data, it will all be pistol, but that matters none at all as to the operating pressure. All the extra legth of the barrel does is expose the bullet to the pressure curve longer and thus increases the velocity. Most of the published data I have used is exceeded by at least 200 fps in the Handi barrel. I have shot a lot of 180 grains bullets with 21 grains of H110. Shoots just fine, no excess pressure. What DJ says is absolutely correct, the Handi SB2 is designed to handle the 25-06 which operates at 55,000cup. This is a larger case head than the Maximum, I doubt that you would load anything that would come close to destructing you or your gun. You have a small capacity straight wall case that is operating in a maximum bore diameter barrel (you can't shoot a bullet larger than .357 from the Maximum case) This means that the expansion ratio is tilted to favor you more than the bullet. A great advantage. There is not a better cartridge for operating in the envelope than the Maximum. I'm not saying you can't blow it up....a heavy charge of anything faster than 2400 will do it. I am saying that I doubt that enough powder like H110, AA1680, Reloder 7 could be stuffed into a Maximum to exceed the limits of the Handi.

Go to Hodgdon's and to Accurate Arms website for published data. The Speer #13 and the Accurate Arms #2 are the only current manuals I am aware of that show 357 Maximum data, though I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong. Good Shooting , JP

[mag41vance]

Disclaimer:I can't recomend this load info because it isn't based on my experience. It is information from LDBennett based on a 20" contender barrel.
    RV



LDBennett Member of The Firearms forum:
Post link:
   http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12117                            
Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Hesperia, CA
Posts: 25
 
I have a Thopmson Contender with a 20 inch 357 Maximum barrel. I did some load development about 10 years ago for it. My aim was to ge it to match the ballistics of the 7.62 x 39 AK-47 cartridge (why, I don't even remember).

I shot 125 gr Hornady XTP 35710 bullets over 24.0 gr of Accurate Arms No. 9 for 2525 FPS with five shot groups at 50 yards of 1.6 inches. I threw in my Dan Wesson SuperMag 357 Maximum load into the mix and it gave 0.875 inch 5 shot groups at 50 yds with 180 gr FMJ Speer Shilohette bullets over 18.2 gr of Hodgdon 4227. This last load had been accuacy optimised for my Dan Wesson SuperMag and a hotter load probably could have been used with some further testing which I did not do.

I would caution you to work your loads up from the book starting loads watching for over pressure indications. I typically find that the fastest loads are not the most accurate loads so most of my loads are below maximum but I test to find out which are the most accurate.

Good luck.

LDBennett@linkline.com

[10ga.]

Some good reading on the Max.
http://handgunhunt.com/tech/t10/

[22KHornet]

The Hornady reloading manual also list max data from 110 grn bullets to 200 grn bullets.