Author Topic: Savage 10ML-II Feedback (Read 1795 times)

RandyWakeman · « **on:** February 08, 2004, 04:29:47 PM »

Please do me a favor, and pretend that you have never heard of the Savage 10ML-II.

What do you think of this brief video clip?

Shazam! :eek: That'll free some webspace. :eek:

big6x6 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 08, 2004, 04:40:04 PM »

Randy,
You KNOW I think that is an awesome clip. If the Savage group is too tight, hardheaded, absent minded, backward thinking, etc to recognize that, POO on them!

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #2 on:** February 09, 2004, 07:16:56 AM »

Chuck,

Actually, I don't think that is the case with Savage Arms.

A lot has changed since the year 2000-- the Omega did not exist, the break-open guns were not nearly as popular, folks did not seek high-BC bullets, and Triple Seven also did not exist. The sabots made then were just not as good as the MMP formulations of today.

The 10ML itself has changed, into the better (IMO) 10ML-II. The 2004 10ML-II is now (IMO) a far even-better gun, with the ground-breaking Accu-Trigger, and a far better safety-- both are huge benefits, in my eyes. The 10ML-II has gone from "very good" to GREAT, IMO. Hardly rushed to market in the first place, there is some 12 years of development behind it-- and current production makes it a spectacular gun.

Though it may well the "World's Greatest Muzzleloader" as I've called it, it still operates in the muzzleloading market-- a vastly different marketing genre from the center-fire area. The lackluster sales efforts (failures?) of Remington / Ruger support this.

So, Savage has the product, the bases are loaded, and and their best hitter ever is at the plate-- arguably the best hitter in the league. It takes guts (and money) to make the call when the bases are loaded, Savage still is relatively new to the non-Form 4473 market, no "better mousetrap" automatically sells itself these days. The traditionally muted, matter-of-fact way of marketing that has done so well for Savage with cartridge guns won't work (IMO) in the front-loader scene. At least, it hasn't for anybody else!

The have the bacon, the sizzle just needs to be added-- and effortless, quick availability to the majority of muzzleloaders I know who if unable to get their hands on what they want hassle-free, just buy something else. There are many, many competent muzzleloaders out there that will drop a deer sub-120 yards with no troubles at all.

The Savage is in a class of its own, though-- it is one of the few muzzleloaders that delivers beyond the performance promised, and whether it is bedding / trigger / sealed action / quality barrel, it has all that. It is not just the strongest muzzleloader made, it may well be the STRONGEST rifle on the market today. Clean, safe, easy to use and maintain, and a lifetime gun.

As of yet, most people do not know how good it really is. I hope that changes in a big hurry.

Bob the Cynic · « **Reply #3 on:** February 09, 2004, 07:56:37 AM »

Good clip, liked the music, makes me want to buy one.

I'm new to the board so if this is common knowledge already sorry ahead of time. Are you connected with Savage Randy? If not, why did you put the clip together?

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2004, 09:49:57 AM »

Quote from: Bob the Cynic

Good clip, liked the music, makes me want to buy one.

Are you connected with Savage Randy? If not, why did you put the clip together?

Hello Bob,

You sound cynical! Is that a coincidence? :shock:

To be direct, I put the clip together because I can, and chose to. There's an old joke about why a dog performs a certain maneuver that comes to mind. In the course of testing bullets, scopes, rangefinders, propellants, producing independent videos, writing product reviews over the years-- I strive to call them as I see them, as forthrightly and in as unbiased a form as I know how. Several articles can be found here: http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2h.muzzleloader.htm . I believe my videos reflect that as well.

I'm delighted to call attention to products that are solid performers, and although I've commented favorably about Bushnell Elite 4200 / 3200 and Sightron scopes-- I sell neither, and have no connection with either company. I've also had great experiences with Warne Maxima rings, MMP sabots, Talley rings, PR bullets, XS Sights Power Rods, Black Ice Teflon coatings, Bushnell and Leica rangefinders, Bostik Never-Seez for breechplugs, etc. Yet, I'm no paid "spokesmodel" for any of these companies-- and any gunshop has a far more vested interest in selling inventory than I do. And, I hardly blame them-- that's what they feed their families with.

It will always be "call them as you see them," and though in the future you may see me select my own sponsors, engage in further consulting efforts, etc.,-- my opinions are not for sale. Most people have seen that vividly by now.

What I've tried my best to do is report on what has happened, what my experiences have been, and hope that others find that information of some value. There are many, many good choices out there in the marketplace. I'm happy when others find that their personal positive experiences coincide with my own. The best I can do is to point up items that have been proven to be outstanding performers for me, personally-- as well as mentioning those that simply do not cut the mustard.

At the end of the day, I hope folks find things that are "worthy of their consideration." There are many things in that category, some woefully overlooked, some less so. As they say, the best you can do is "just the best you can do." I've had a passion for hunting and shooting sports all my life, what better thing is there than to become increasingly involved and active in the areas that you love? Like anything else, the more you learn-- the more you realize there is to be learned.

forester47 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 09, 2004, 02:41:41 PM »

Randy,
Have you done a review on the Black Ice teflon coating and if so where can I find it? I've been to their web site and this looks like a pretty neat process. What does it look like on SS? Is it a dull black? Can't reallly tell a lot from the pics on their site. Often wondered how visible SS is when hunting although can't say I ever spooked a deer because of it. Pretty reasonably priced too when only doing a barrel. You haven't by chance done a laminated SS 10ML-II have you? Might look pretty sharp- not to mention the protection.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #6 on:** February 09, 2004, 03:10:20 PM »

http://www.chuckhawks.com/black_ice.htm

Here, I'm clowning around a bit with my Dad after he popped his first bull last fall.

That's a stainless steel Encore, with barrel-only given the Black Ice treatment. No, I've not done a 10ML-II. Black Ice looks great on SS, I like killing the bright barrels. For hunting, I think it would be excellent. For range work on 100 degree days-- I'm wondering if that would encourage barrel heating a bit? Don't know, but I've not had any heating problems with the relatively mild loads I'm shooting to date.

If you were going to use your Savage with T 7 or Pyro at all, I think it would be a very good idea. To me, they are all hunting machines anyway, not paper-punchers. But, when you test a bunch of guns / bullets, it is just part of the program.

dan h W/NY · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2004, 03:12:49 AM »

:grin:

Randy,

Great video! But you cheated. :lol: Wasn't that caribou shot with Cecil's dead center 220 out of your disc elite?

Very true about the savage! Awesome gun! Far better than the pumpkin ball throwing slug guns we are required to use in NY.

Take Care,

Dan H

grouse · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2004, 03:44:37 AM »

Randy,
Really great job on the video clip. Awesome job actually.
I hope they use it. :grin:

Wolfhound · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2004, 03:47:28 AM »

Quote from: dan h W/NY

:grin:
Randy,

Great video! But you cheated. :lol: Wasn't that caribou shot with Cecil's dead center 220 out of your disc elite?

His Thompson/Center Encore and a Dead Center. :eek:

Underclocked · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2004, 04:46:29 AM »

It is deceptive, misleading, and a bit overboard.

And we know it isn't the worlds "smartest" muzzleloader.

You should include the number of states which will allow its use during muzzleloader season.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2004, 04:47:30 AM »

Cheated? :cry:

No "camera trickery" or sleight of hand was involved. Was the wind not blowing hard enough for you, or the bull caribou too close?

I didn't begin testing the 10ML-II AccuTrigger until late November. The last Savage 10ML-II, while very impressive, in out-of-the-box configuration-- had a too heavy trigger, and the safety was very hard for me to get off.

The 2004 AT model (the only model Savage now catalogs or makes is w/ Accutrigger) replaces that trigger with the best I've ever seen on a muzzleloader, and the new, generously sized "big button" tang safety is a snap to get off. For me, personally, these two improvements are huge-- and takes the 10ML-II to a new level.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2004, 05:46:20 AM »

The Great Underclocked apparently did not set aside preconceived notions: "Please do me a favor, and pretend that you have never heard of the Savage 10ML-II."

Quote from: Underclocked

You should include the number of states which will allow its use during muzzleloader season.

On a video clip? State muzzleloading regs vary from year to year, and most people know that the Savage with Triple Seven / Pyrodex / etc. is legal anywhere a Knight Disc Rifle, Encore, Omega, Huntsman, etc., etc., is. Does ANY manufacturer publish state DNR regs for 209s / sealed actions, anywhere?

If there is an action on a muzzleloader that is more sealed, another muzzleloader that is tested to 129,000 PSI, another muzzleloader that comes factory pillar bedded, a muzzleloader that has a better trigger, etc., etc., I'm not aware of it. Where is it?

In the "misleading" dept.-- you really must be kidding. Compared to "Encore as a 7mm Mag," "Anything Out to 200 yards is toast," or CVA ads comparing an Optima to an Encore stating "Looks like the only REAL difference is $300" stuff . . . this is really quite understated by comparison.

Right now, Thompson / Knight / White (and others) all lay claim to the "World's Most Powerful Muzzleloader." The Savage really is, yet that is not even mentioned!

If there is something "deceptive and misleading" (can you have one without the other?) please tell me what it is. In stark, clear comparison to most muzzleloaders on the market, the Savage really delivers on everything it is promised to be.

Underclocked · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2004, 07:45:03 AM »

No, I'm not kidding.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2004, 08:21:59 AM »

That would be a first! :roll:

Underclocked · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2004, 10:54:22 AM »

OH YEAH, well I got the pic but I'm still waiting for those free passes. Are you gonna go?

woodseye · « **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2004, 12:23:22 PM »

I recieved mine about an hour ago and its quite a nice gun. First surprise was instead of the SS/Syn. that I ordered and paid for and what was marked on the box........it turned out to be the camo gun packaged inside instead. Thats cool I guess, very nice fit and condition and the accu-tigger feels great like my other one. Came with a bullet starter - some sabots and 250gr hornadys - ear plugs - targets - extra vent liners - anti sieze - and wrenches for the breech plug and action screws along with a lens cloth in case it came scoped.

The sabots, sub-bases, and bullets are on the way and mounts and rings are ready to mount the waiting Conquest scope. Still searching for N110 powder and need to give a through cleaning so I can check out the bore and bedding. Can't wait to get started and see what kind of accuracy I can wring out of it.

We don't have a "primitive" or a "blackpowder" season, but instead have a muzzleloader season here that this gun fits the definition of to a "t". The no mess clean-up along with a light recoiling mid 40 grain load will be a joy to shoot and work up an accuracy load with. Do plan on a stiffen for the forend and making sure the pillars are level and contacting the action. Than a good skim bed and perhaps a little bore lapping if necessary and its off to the range.

woods

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2004, 01:00:12 PM »

Quote from: woodseye

Still searching for N110 powder and need to give a through cleaning so I can check out the bore and bedding. Can't wait to get started and see what kind of accuracy I can wring out of it.

That's a common issue, and they are still 2-lb. containers. Graf & Sons has it, and if you are buying 8 lbs (I believe) of assorted powders, they pay the Haz-Mat, no tax, and flat-rate shipping.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #18 on:** February 10, 2004, 01:56:29 PM »

Quote from: Underclocked

It is deceptive, misleading, and a bit overboard.

I wasn't referring to your Avatar, Underclocked-- I meant the video clip!

No, I'm not kidding. I know you want a rapid-fire semi-auto sequence, but it just isn't happening. :bye: :bye: :bye:

Sourdough · « **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2004, 08:41:18 AM »

Underclocked: You look a lot like Big Morty who is complaining on the other sights he got banned by Graybeard. You his twin brother?

Underclocked · « **Reply #20 on:** February 25, 2004, 03:25:34 PM »

No, that's my other brother.