Why the left defaced the Thomas Jefferson statue

[ironglows]

  When Thomas Jefferson was president, he possessed a copy of the Koran, a fact that was widely known.  Of course, he possessed many books, gathered throughout his life.


  However upon learning that, the recently elected Muslims in congress, chose Jefferson's Koran to be sworn in with.


  Then it apparently dawned upon them that Jefferson had the Koran for a reason.  He studied it as a way to try to figure 0ut the crazy mindset of the Barbary pirates, who were taking our ships and sailors as hostage.


  Seems like it suddenly dawned upon these historically ignorant, democrats, that President Jefferson in 1804, sent our Marines into Tripoli (Libya) to kick the Muslim Pasha's donkey !  The Marines did a great job !


  So now, Thomas Jefferson is fair game for the history~ignorant civilization fighters.


 [size=78%]https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2020/07/progressive-racist-islamo-lefts-exploitation-raymond-ibrahim/[/size]

[Ranger99]

Yes he did actively fight muslim
terrorism and knew them for what
they were.
He was undeniably one of the greatest
Americans that ever was
It's a shame we don't have a way to
honor his memory and legacy in
a sufficient manner

[Land_Owner]

Why?  Why, there is NO EXCUSE!  The Leftist Haters are RACIST, Welfare Rats of Low Regard, Uneducated, Doomed to Failure, and deserving of NOTHING.  They blindly follow their Plantation Owning "leadership" to the utter destruction of their entire community, which they in turn blame on others - particularly White Men.


So, ELIMINATE WELFARE.  Earn it, Own it, and Work for it or DON'T EAT.  Respect is EARNED.  Nobody respects street thugs.


Time to bring out the shotguns with #4 buckshot to clear the streets.

[Dee]

Richard, you seem angry about sumthin. Do we.need to talk?

[ironglows]

Yes, Richard, do tell us how you really feel !  Actually, many of us see it your way !  Surely, much of that rabble now running the streets burning, robbing, killing etc., have contributed little or nothing, to feed, clothe or train anyone..even themselves


    ..And no doubt, they would condemn anyone who would work to forward the greatness of America !

[Dee]

In regards to the  topic.


I don't agree with any of the statues being destroyed, or taken down. In Gainesville Tx about 40 miles from here, a Confederate memorial was taken down last week.


What can you say when the powers that be deemed it ok to erase that piece of history.
I figure the Confederate monument on our court house lawn is next.


Tomorrow, Linda and I are going to look at a small lake home in a very small community in Oklahoma.
I've been a lifelong Texan for over 70 years and live 20 miles from where I was born.
But Dallas is coming my way, and grows more liberal by the day.


Oklahoma where almost all my people are from, seems one of the few states that are still aware of our rights.
Hope I can pull this move off. If God wants it to happen, it will.

[ironglows]

this past Tuesday, as we do each Tuesday evening, our church had it's Bible study @ 18:30 hours.  We are doing it outdoors around a campfire during this nice weather.
  It was my job to present a study, which I did, on "unexpected heroes", in the Bible.
 
  After the study, we sat around, enjoying grilled hotdogs and conversing about current events.  Of course, we happened upon the subject of current events, including the protests and accompanying riots.


  I was well aware that the only black person in the area was right there in our group, a lady that is normally quite cool.  I made it clear that protesting peacefully, is covered by the first amendment, but rioting is not.


  Later, it turned to the statue toppling, and I made it clear that I was not about to accept condemnation of two of my personal heroes..Gen. Robert E Lee and Gen. Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson.  I explained how both of these generals, were the epitome of Christian gentlemen, never owned slaves, and were opposed to the practice!


 The lady walked away and left..  Later, after speaking to her, our pastor mentioned that other parts of the discussion bothered her more than my statement , but suggested that I just "listen" to her.
 Well, I can "listen", but it puzzles me as to why, since I have long studied the biographies of these two heroes.


  With that incident, I realized that there are thousands out there who are doing stupid acts, and are totally ignorant of why they are doing them, and know nothing of the lives of the people they are trying to defame !


  Nevertheless, if she wishes to discuss her apprehensions, i will listen...and explain why she should perhaps, check the record, before going off half-cocked !




 

[gpaandhisguns]

In regards to the  topic.


I don't agree with any of the statues being destroyed, or taken down. In Gainesville Tx about 40 miles from here, a Confederate memorial was taken down last week.


What can you say when the powers that be deemed it ok to erase that piece of history.
I figure the Confederate monument on our court house lawn is next.


Tomorrow, Linda and I are going to look at a small lake home in a very small community in Oklahoma.
I've been a lifelong Texan for over 70 years and live 20 miles from where I was born.
But Dallas is coming my way, and grows more liberal by the day.


Oklahoma where almost all my people are from, seems one of the few states that are still aware of our rights.
Hope I can pull this move off. If God wants it to happen, it will.

I hope you can make it happen Dee. I'll be praying that it works out for you!


I have been hermitizing in a cabin in western Ioway. Nutting but red blooded gun toting republicans to rub elbows with in this county. I only came out from under my rock as I got a buyer for my house in libtard central and had to square things up. It's nice being surrounded with like minded people who are thought driven and not the emotional snowflakes that I have had to put up with in recent years.


I don't know how things are shaking in Oklahoma but I would imagine that they are pretty much then same as my new found home. There has always been a militia presence here in the mid west but a little time on the www. and a few phone calls revealed to me that they are exploding in numbers. Trump stated that the American people are getting fed up with the violence and it is going to stop very soon. I put my name on the list to be called and bought some suitable items just incase that I should get that call.


Never has the tyranny from the left been more threatening......time to nip it in the bud!

[Dee]

this past Tuesday, as we do each Tuesday evening, our church had it's Bible study @ 18:30 hours.  We are doing it outdoors around a campfire during this nice weather.
  It was my job to present a study, which I did, on "unexpected heroes", in the Bible.
 
  After the study, we sat around, enjoying grilled hotdogs and conversing about current events.  Of course, we happened upon the subject of current events, including the protests and accompanying riots.


  I was well aware that the only black person in the area was right there in our group, a lady that is normally quite cool.  I made it clear that protesting peacefully, is covered by the first amendment, but rioting is not.


  Later, it turned to the statue toppling, and I made it clear that I was not about to accept condemnation of two of my personal heroes..Gen. Robert E Lee and Gen. Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson.  I explained how both of these generals, were the epitome of Christian gentlemen, never owned slaves, and were opposed to the practice!


 The lady walked away and left..  Later, after speaking to her, our pastor mentioned that other parts of the discussion bothered her more than my statement , but suggested that I just "listen" to her.
 Well, I can "listen", but it puzzles me as to why, since I have long studied the biographies of these two heroes.


  With that incident, I realized that there are thousands out there who are doing stupid acts, and are totally ignorant of why they are doing them, and know nothing of the lives of the people they are trying to defame !


  Nevertheless, if she wishes to discuss her apprehensions, i will listen...and explain why she should perhaps, check the record, before going off half-cocked !




 

Very few know that Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, before dying of pneumonia, had been regularly tithing to "a negro church" for the purpose of teaching them to read, so that they could read the Bible.


Nor that Robert E Lee was considered such a patriot, and a man of honor, that Lincoln offered him the job of leading the Union Army "before" he offered it to anyone else.


However, Robert E. Lee's family DID own slaves, as did Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson. In fact, Jackson owned six, but upon his death only 5 were listed on his estate, indicating one had been either freed, or had died.

As for your "only" black Bible Study member?

I'm am pretty sure she felt the message was directed at her "specifically".
Uncomfortable was most likely an understatement.

[ironglows]

  From the biographies I have read....


  Thomas Jackson did not die from pneumonia, but was shot and wounded by his own pickets, while trying to regain entrance to his own camping area, during the wilderness campaign.  He succumbed to his wounds within days.
  Jackson was born poor, in Charleston, VA...now West Virginia.  He was raised by an uncle at Jackson's Mill, W Va, where he worked daily during his young life. Never owned slaves, never approved the practice.


  He attended West Point, then taught at VMI in Lexington, VA, until called to serve.  When Lee heard of Jackson's arm amputation, he said, "Jackson has lost his left arm, I have lost my right arm!"



  His last words.."Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees."  Jackson initiated the bible class and taught it for some time, before going to war.


  Indeed, Lincoln did offer the job to Lee, but Lee deferred to his home state of Virginia. After the war, Lee went to teach at Washington college.  He took no inflated wage, even when offered..but only accepted 'what the college could afford".
   His office was in the basement of the campus chapel.  He once remarked during his time there, that he "considered the day lost, when he did not lead some student closer to the Lord" (paraphrased)


  Lee's father Henry, "Light horse Harry" Lee, was a favorite of Gen Washington.  True the Lees were of "Virginia aristocracy", such as it was.  ..But light horse was a very poor money manager, and lost the fortune.


  Robert E Lee, when he married a 2nd cousin.. Mary Anna Custis Lee, did gain a plantation, but spent 5 years granting manumission to the 5-6 slaves that came with it, hopefully preparing them for freedom.


 Lee's last words.. "strike the tent!"..


  These two, were exceptional Christian gentlemen..as I said.  Now, had she decided to speak with me, instead of just leaving, I could have offered her a couple general's names to hate upon, but [size=78%]Jackson & Lee were not good candidates.  I did allow that there were many such candidates, before I spoke to defend Lee and Jackson..[/size]


  Message directed against her?  She should have known better, since we have known one another for many years.  Too often, people react to a signal word..such as "confederate" or "rebel"..
  I refuse to think of black people as all BLM..because that is just not so.    There are many, nay most, who are fine people, caught up in a bad situation, not of their own making.


  Helpful info..NOT Wikipedia.. for both..


   https://www.britannica.com/biography/Robert-E-Lee

     https://www.britannica.com/biography/Stonewall-Jackson
.

[Dee]

  From the biographies I have read....


  Thomas Jackson did not die from pneumonia, but was shot and wounded by his own pickets, while trying to regain entrance to his own camping area, during the wilderness campaign.  He succumbed to his wounds within days.
  Jackson was born poor, in Charleston, VA...now West Virginia.  He was raised by an uncle at Jackson's Mill, W Va, where he worked daily during his young life. Never owned slaves, never approved the practice.


  He attended West Point, then taught at VMI in Lexington, VA, until called to serve.  When Lee heard of Jackson's arm amputation, he said, "Jackson has lost his left arm, I have lost my right arm!"



  His last words.."Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees."  Jackson initiated the bible class and taught it for some time, before going to war.


  Indeed, Lincoln did offer the job to Lee, but Lee deferred to his home state of Virginia. After the war, Lee went to teach at Washington college.  He took no inflated wage, even when offered..but only accepted 'what the college could afford".
   His office was in the basement of the campus chapel.  He once remarked during his time there, that he "considered the day lost, when he did not lead some student closer to the Lord" (paraphrased)


  Lee's father Henry, "Light horse Harry" Lee, was a favorite of Gen Washington.  True the Lees were of "Virginia aristocracy", such as it was.  ..But light horse was a very poor money manager, and lost the fortune.


  Robert E Lee, when he married a 2nd cousin.. Mary Anna Custis Lee, did gain a plantation, but spent 5 years granting manumission to the 5-6 slaves that came with it, hopefully preparing them for freedom.


 Lee's last words.. "strike the tent!"..


  These two, were exceptional Christian gentlemen..as I said.  Now, had she decided to speak with me, instead of just leaving, I could have offered her a couple general's names to hate upon, but [size=78%]Jackson & Lee were not good candidates.  I did allow that there were many such candidates, before I spoke to defend Lee and Jackson..[/size]


  Message directed against her?  She should have known better, since we have known one another for many years.  Too often, people react to a signal word..such as "confederate" or "rebel"..
  I refuse to think of black people as all BLM..because that is just not so.    There are many, nay most, who are fine people, caught up in a bad situation, not of their own making.


  Helpful info..NOT Wikipedia.. for both..


   https://www.britannica.com/biography/Robert-E-Lee

     https://www.britannica.com/biography/Stonewall-Jackson
.

Some of your information is correct, some is sorta correct, and some is BS.


I know that in your mind, your "always correct" but your description of Jackson's cause of death is well documented everywhere except at your house.


Jackson was indeed shot by his own pickets. In the left shoulder.  It had to be amputated.
Lee upon receiving word said. "Jackson has lost his left arm, and I, my right arm, describing the importance of Jackson.


But Jackson's wounds were healing, but because people believed in those days that laying bed was best, Jackson developed pneumonia and died of it.
If you had done as much research as you think you have you would also know that pneumonia was the third leading cause of death for injured soldiers on both sides.

As to the only black lady in an all white Bible study? Given the nationwide civil unrest, BLM rioting ect. I would say that, you have the right to say whatever you choose,  but I question whether it was right to say it, and I was raised down here where the Confederate side was taught in public schools all the way into the early 60s.


But if your ok with making a loneolder black lady n an otherwise all white study uncomfortable with such a topic, I'll say that's your baby, so rock it any way you want.

[ironglows]

Yes; often injured people who stay immobile will contract pneumonia, which in the current practice, is why surgical patients are up and walking as soon as possible.


  I guess you would have to get the context of the discussion to understand.  the lady and I  have been friends for years, and have participated in similar discussions all that time.
 
  In any case, pastor told me that i was not the primary source of distress.  I am of course, open to her approach and I suppose if she does not do so in coming days, I will approach her.


 She knows, because I have in the past, informed her, that I don't subscribe to the notion of "race", since we are all descended from Adam & Eve.  No "races' but climatological adaptations, yes !


  I was approached by other elders, saying that I was correct and she was just overly sensitive.  Frankly, i like the idea of discussing such points calmly and reaching agreement.  We will likely do that soon, after the initial anger wears off !
.
 

[Dee]

Yes; often injured people who stay immobile will contract pneumonia, which in the current practice, is why surgical patients are up and walking as soon as possible.


  I guess you would have to get the context of the discussion to understand.  the lady and I  have been friends for years, and have participated in similar discussions all that time.
 
  In any case, pastor told me that i was not the primary source of distress.  I am of course, open to her approach and I suppose if she does not do so in coming days, I will approach her.


 She knows, because I have in the past, informed her, that I don't subscribe to the notion of "race", since we are all descended from Adam & Eve.  No "races' but climatological adaptations, yes !


  I was approached by other elders, saying that I was correct and she was just overly sensitive.  Frankly, i like the idea of discussing such points calmly and reaching agreement.  We will likely do that soon, after the initial anger wears off !
.

I probably understand Lee, and Jackson, and other Confederate parties better than you could imagine.
Down here they are regarded as heroes. We have monuments for them, and we studied them, their careers, and the families in school.


As to me not understanding your "lesson context"?


Gimme a break ironglow. You portrayed these two generals as "non slave owners".


That's not context. Its changing the facts. They WERE slave owners. While both great men, they did have warts.


Your doin "the ironglow dance" right now, trying to get out of being wrong on your facts, by deflecting.


You taught a Bible study using two slave owners as highly moral, and claimed them to be non slave owners.
For the times they believed slavery was morally ok, but it was a moral defect that you denied.
It's like saying Christ was Muslim.

[Ranger99]

Tomorrow, Linda and I are going to look at a small lake home in a very small community in Oklahoma.
I've been a lifelong Texan for over 70 years and live 20 miles from where I was born.
But Dallas is coming my way, and grows more liberal by the day.


Oklahoma where almost all my people are from, seems one of the few states that are still aware of our rights.
Hope I can pull this move off. If God wants it to happen, it will.

Good luck with that
JMO. I'd stay east of Atoka if you can.  I know some that
commute from Ardmore everyday. Anywhere around
Texoma will be full of what you're trying to escape, and
around Winstar casino and close to the interstates.
I can recommend Pine Creek as a decent place.  (Or
it used to be) I don't remember there being that many
lake lots, but it'd be worth a look.
Ok property taxes used to be fairly cheap.
Not as many mini-mansions and ranchettes as
there are in this region I would guess .
Maybe it'll stay "old fashioned " and not become
trendy with the yuppies for a while and you can
have a little peace

[ironglows]

From Dee;


  "give me a break ironglow. You portrayed these two generals as "non slave owners"


  https://www.britannica.com/biography/Robert-E-Lee/Postwar-years-and-position-in-history


  The last paragraph of the Britanica article on Lee;
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Although history knows him mostly as “the Rebel General,” Lee was a disbeliever in slavery and secession and was devoutly attached to the republic that his father and kinsmen had helped bring into being. He was, moreover, very advanced in his rejection of war as a resolution of political conflicts—a fact that has been almost entirely ignored by posterity. As a U.S. Army colonel in Texas during the secession crises of late 1860, he wrote, “[If] strife and civil war are to take the place of brotherly love and kindness, I shall mourn for my country and for the welfare and progress of mankind.”~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


  While yes, Jackson was suffering from pneumonia when he died, it is only fair to assume that had he not been wounded, he likely would not have died at that time.  It seems disingenuous to claim he died simply from pneumonia, when his death happened just 8 days from his wounding and amputation under very primitive conditions..
  https://www.britannica.com/biography/Stonewall-Jackson

  From the article;
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
  font=inherit !iOn the evening of May 2, Jackson rolled up the flank of the unsuspecting Federal forces. Then, in the moment of victory, tragedy struck. Jackson, who had ridden forward to organize the pursuit, was accidentally shot down by his own men when he returned at dusk and was seriously, but not mortally, wounded. Although his left arm was amputated successfully, pneumonia set in and he died a week later. Lee could not replace him; for while Jackson had lost his left arm, Lee had, indeed, lost his right arm."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

.

[Dee]

Good grief for someone to claim such godliness you are prideful. As I have said numerous times, your all about teaching, and nuthin a out learning.


You are as guilty as the people you despise, about trying to twist history. You are forever incapable of admitting being wrong, even when facts are staring you in the face, you abandon history and resort to "surmising".


Your version of this history sucks, right down to the slavery issue. You blew that part to.


His wounds were healing and he developed pneumonia and he died. Pneumonia killed Stonewall Jackson.
Anybody that knows the actual history knows that.


Everybody except a New Yorker with a computer.


If you look hard enough you can probably find a website that says the two didn't own slaves. Oh wait! You already did that.

[ironglows]

... Touche' ....