Author Topic: Need serious help, Handi owners please respond...  (Read 775 times)

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Offline BoneDigger

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Need serious help, Handi owners please respond...
« on: January 06, 2005, 03:06:24 AM »
At this point in my hunting career I have shot many types of rifles and have hunted with some of the best.  I have used the BAR in 7mm Mag., Winchester M70, Ruger, and Savage 110.  These are all exceptional rifles, but I'm looking for a change.  I like the idea of a very accurate single shot rifle for deer hunting.  I have decided that I want the 7mm-08 caliber but I am up in the air about the gun itself.

I have read a number of good comments here on this forum about the Handi-rifle and as such I am excited about possibly purchasing one.  However, after reading some posts on other boards, I'm now kind of concerned about the gun.

1) Accuracy: This is my biggest concern.  I am reading a lot of posts where people say you have to shoot the gun at least 100 times to "break it in."  Sorry guys but I don't have that option.  Why such a hefty break-in period?    I have read other posts where the gun just simply would NOT shoot better than 3 inch groups at 100 yards no matter what you do to it.  I would think that a single shot would have more accuracy that that!?!?!?

2) Trigger pull: Almost all posts that I have read have recommended a trigger job to reduce trigger poundage.  I hate the idea of buying a gun that I have to immediately take to a gun shop to have modified.

3) Ejector: I have read that you have to pollish (spell?) the chamber or it will not eject many shells.  Seems like a pain to me.

4) Barrel breaking open: I have read where there has been a problem with the barrel breaking open at the breech after a shot.  Is this typical?  Some have said it's only a problem with Magnum loads?

I realize that this is a relatively inexpensive gun at only $200, but I have to spend my money wisely (2 year old and 4 month old girls take a LOT of my money!!!).  I want to buy a really good scope to put on this gun.

Is the Handi rifle a GOOD gun or should I save my money for a Savage 110 @ approximately $400?

I appreciate some candid answers to these questions.  Thanks for all of your help!  This is a great forum.

Todd in TX

Offline tjf76

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Need serious help, Handi owners please resp
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2005, 03:30:35 AM »

Offline Jeffery8mm

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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2005, 03:37:33 AM »
You have to be a subscriber?? to see the link???


Jeff
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Offline Terrible Tom

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Re: Need serious help, Handi owners please respond...
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2005, 03:41:40 AM »
Quote from: BoneDigger

1) Accuracy: Why such a hefty break-in period?    I have read other posts where the gun just simply would NOT shoot better than 3 inch groups at 100 yards no matter what you do to it.  I would think that a single shot would have more accuracy that that!?!?!?


There's a lot of folks who believe in barrel break in procedures that seem completely baffling to me.  It might not be a bad idea to run a solvent-soaked patch and a few dry ones down the bore before shooting, and it might not be a good idea to go rapid fire 100 rounds through a spankin' new barrel, but I more or less just get out there and shoot.

Some rifles are good right out of the box, others aren't.  This is not a Handi-Rifle specific problem.  I've seen Remington 788 and Mowhawk 600 rifles that took a lot of tuning to get their group size down.  Glass bedding, trigger work, etc. is sometimes required to get a rifle to shoot.  Most of the tips & tricks for tuning your Handi (if it needs it) are inexpensive DIY projects that are neither lengthy or complicated.

Quote from: BoneDigger

2) Trigger pull: Almost all posts that I have read have recommended a trigger job to reduce trigger poundage.  I hate the idea of buying a gun that I have to immediately take to a gun shop to have modified.


Heavy triggers are the norm among many rifle manufacturers nowadays.  Think of it as a 'lawyered-up' trigger.  My 2004 Handi has a decent trigger.  It's a 22-250 and when I order more barrels I will request the factory trigger job but it's certainly usable right out of the box.

Quote from: BoneDigger

3) Ejector: I have read that you have to pollish (spell?) the chamber or it will not eject many shells.  Seems like a pain to me.


A more accurate statement might be 'occassionally won't eject a shell' and the new guns come with mechanical extractors (vs. the old spring-loaded ejector).  I'd bet that the new guns have much less trouble with this and besides, polishing the chamber is quick & easy.

Quote from: BoneDigger

4) Barrel breaking open: I have read where there has been a problem with the barrel breaking open at the breech after a shot.  Is this typical?  Some have said it's only a problem with Magnum loads?


Not typical.  I'd not expect that to happen (ever) but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened with a 40,000cup 45-70 load.

Quote from: BoneDigger

I realize that this is a relatively inexpensive gun at only $200, but I have to spend my money wisely (2 year old and 4 month old girls take a LOT of my money!!!).  I want to buy a really good scope to put on this gun.

Is the Handi rifle a GOOD gun or should I save my money for a Savage 110 @ approximately $400?


The Handi is a very inexpensive gun.  If you shop around (or use Wal-Mart's web pricing to beat up your local Gander Mtn.) you should be able to get a standard Handi in any caliber for just under $200.  Compared to the Savage bolt action, you now have an extra $200 to spend on that really good scope or your 2 daughters, or ammo/reloading supplies, or scope rings or--even better--an extra barrel + factory trigger job!

Hope that helps!

Offline Winter Hawk

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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2005, 03:47:28 AM »
Todd,

From my personal experience these are good little rifles, though they do need a little fussing with.  I have had two, one was an H&R .30-30 which I bought in 1982, the other an NEF .30-06 (bought in 1994).  The .30-30 gave reasonable accuracy but would hang up cases.  The '06 gave me 1" groups at 100 yards with realoads.  I had the pop-open problem with it, contacted NEF and they had me send it in for repair on their nickel.  The caveat is that I had to develop a load for each gun which it liked, no big deal since I reload anyway.  Neither rifle had a scope, both had a Williams WGRS rear and patridge type front sight.

There are numerous posts on how to polish the chamber if you get one which won't eject.  Nothing which can't be done with hand tools.  You can also do the trigger job yourself if needed and Perklo has instructions on his site on how to do it.  What I have read though is that the new NEFs have a much better trigger than they did even a year ago, so that may not be a problem.  The factory will also do this for you though it means mailing the gun back to them.

I guess it boils down to that you get what you pay for.  These little rifles are fun to mess with, and being able to get a second barrel is a real plus.

-WH-
"All you need for happiness is a good gun, a good horse and a good wife." - D. Boone

Offline Big Blue

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« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2005, 03:48:33 AM »
Todd,
  I won't buffalo you, these guns, for the most part, are not a take it out of the box and shoot MOA groups. They do take a little playing with to get them where they should be. I personally like playing with them, but that's me, and may not be what you are looking for. That having been said, I have to say they are fully capable of equaling much pricier rifles in the accuracy department. The problems they have can all fixed by a somewhat handy owner, that includes the case sticking, and if needed, trigger pull. For some rifles, it's just a matter of removing the forearm, adding an O-ring, and putting the forearm back on. The trigger pull problem has become much better in the last few years. The factory seems to be paying more attention to the trigger than before. I guess it also depends on your level of expectation from a hunting rifle. The smaller calibers seem to be more finicky as to the ammo they like. This is just my exprience with them. My .223 will shoot 1.25" groups using Winchester (cheap) white box ammo. Others here have their rifles shooting consistant dime sized five shot groups at 100 yards. I did lighten up the trigger on that rifle, added some weight inside the stock bolt hole, and a rubber O-ring to the forearm holdown screw. All told about 2 hours of work. I've shot 1 1/2" groups from my 45/70 with handloads, but it's much less finicky and shoots factory ammo fine. The one rifle I have not been able to get consistant accuracy from is my 7mm-08. I had shot into one hole with that rifle at 50 yards, only to have the scope come loose, and not being able to repeat that level of accuracy. When it's all done and said, I still think they are well worth the money, and I'm about to buy another in either 30-06 or 308. When I went deer hunting this year, I could have chosen from any one of the many rifles I have that are deer capable, but my H+R BC 45/70 got the nod, and a deer. After getting that 45/70, I liked it so much, I sold the Marlin Guide Gun I had. Again all of this is just my experience and opinion, and others may agree or disagree, but I'm giving it to you straight. I have to add that I have never had a rifle open up when shooting, and that includes heavy level 2 45/70 loads.
Don

Offline AZ223

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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2005, 03:57:41 AM »
These are my more or less candid response to your questions...

1. Most, including myself, seem to experience sub-MOA groups with these rifles, provided the shooter does his/her part. Bottom line, accuracy comes at a price; it all depends on how accurate you want to get -- CZ rimfires are reputedly quite accurate out of the box, and they're typically around $400 rifles. Yet many aren't satisfied with that either, and so there are trigger kits and other mods available for them, not to mention that even the "best" still do better with a bedding job.

For myself, I didn't consider 100 rounds to break the barrel in to be too much; with a .223 it took me about two hours. From what I've read elsewhere, including sites like www.snipercountry.com  a 100-200 round break-in is to be expected for any rifle. I suppose a larger caliber with more recoil might require more trips to the range. But even with that, consider that ANY mechanical device requires some sort of break-in, regardless of how well machined it is.  

2. The triggers are stiff, but I've found mine easier than most as far as factory rifles go. Trigger weight, I believe, is a response to litigation issues. Some rifles come with "adjustable" triggers; H&R/NEF doesn't make any as of yet. If you're getting another barrel, however, you can have the factory lighten it for free when they're fitting the new barrel. Keep in mind, gunsmiths exist for a reason, and it isn't for any one brand of rifle.

3. Some rifles do have issues with this; most are solved by a good cleaning, though there are other fixes as well. In my case, polishing the chamber consisted of wrapping a piece of cloth around the tip of a cleaning jag and running it along the chamber for about 20 min. while watching TV. After 2,000 rounds since, it stuck once, and that was because I was wondering how long it would tolerate going without cleaning.

4. I've not had this happen with the .223 or .17HMR, but these are not heavy loads. Others may be able to give advice regarding this, but from what I've read, a good thorough cleaning can fix most of them.

I believe the H&R/NEF's to be very good rifles. While they don't come with some of the features more expensive rifles come with, they do what they're designed for very well. I've read other forums for other types of rifles, and ALL have their quirks. I've inspected $700+ rifles at the local gun shops, and some were set up very poorly, including actions so stiff you could barely work them.

The H&R/NEF, in my experience, are reliable and accurate, and will put up with a lot of abuse. It's up to each individual to decide what they want, and what they're willing to pay for it. In my case, a better trigger is the only modification I'd consider, yet I'm already shooting close to my limit with them already. Either way, paying $200 for a good rifle and adding $50 or so for a trigger job is still less than $400 out of the box, and leaves me with more money I can spend on a good scope.

Good luck...

Just my $.02... 8)
Life was so much simpler when I thought I knew everything...

Offline Mac11700

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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2005, 05:12:36 AM »
Todd:

Seems like you've gotten your answer...and I might add this ...the Handi rifle is a great buy...even if you only have plans for buying and using 1 caliber and not sending it in to take advantage of the barrel accessory program...

Can you expext sub-moa groups with yours...realisticly...no...but others myself included have gotten them...with various calibers.. the 7-08 might prove to be a tack driver...then again it might not...there isn't any majic caliber in the handi that promises that...accuracy is a concern with any rifle you purchase...how would you feel if you paid the $400 for a Savage and it only shoot2- 4" groups with any ammo you tried or handloaded...what would you do then...is it a distinct possability...realisticly...yes it is...accuracy is dependent on more than 1 variable being pefect...


Can you expect a benchrest trigger pull...realisticly...no...but the last 2 complete rifles I've purchased have come with a 3 lb. or less pull with no creep out of the box...

Will the action pop open...realisticly...it shouldn't...and if you've cleaned it properly and it does...then you'll need to send it back in...the very nature of these actions makes it easier to have this problem than with anyother type action...

Will the ejector hang up and fail to pop out the cartridge...realisticly...maybe...that will depend on the ammo used and the rifle itself...if it does...then the procedure is quite simple to cure it...and there has beeen tons of imformation here on doing just that...

Do you have to expend 100 rounds to break the rifle in...realisticly..100 rounds isn't anything towards breaking in a rifle...some rifles need a-lot more...some less...you can help it by polishing the chamber and bore with Flitz or someother paste as many here do..but if you look at some of the several break-in procedures given by different barrel manufactures..you'll see just how little 100 rounds truely is...


If you are expecting to get a benchrest quality gun for $200-$300...then you really need to look elsewhere...if you want a good dependable rifle that shoots good...then these rifles are just what your looking for...you have to weigh the advantages and disadvantages before you buy one...it's always best to actually have the gun in your hand to feel the trigger and check to see if it locks up tight...these 2 things are crucial for a truely accurate rifle...if you can't...then you have to take your chances with buying it sight unseen ...just like any other firearm you purchase that way...some here have gotten some real bad ones...quite a few have gotten pretty good ones...and some here have gotten some outstanding ones.....and the real beauty of it is...some of those that have gotten some pretty good ones...have turned them into really outstanding ones...and it's up to you how much effort your willing to put into it to make it so if needed...you may have to go thru 5-10 different factory loads or handloads before finding one that will give you the accuracy your looking for...


Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Ditchdigger

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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2005, 05:33:23 AM »
I think that the best thing about the Handi is its very handi,and is the first gun I grab when going out the door for a coyote. It's quick to load,and can be very accurate sometimes. Mine are not very accurate out of the box, but its a very good truck gun.You would have to use one for awhile to understand why we like the guns so much. Digger
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Offline Donaldo

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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2005, 07:50:28 PM »
Todd,
You have received a lot of honest and good information here.  Few if any rifles will guarantee MOA accuracy out of the box for less than about $1,000.  Most of us like the Handi's because of the fact that they are handy.  And most of us like to tinker with our rifles.  The handi lends itself to tinkering.  I have several bolt rifles of various make and caliber, but I like to shoot my 223 Ultra Varminter best of all.  Hard to explain why.  I only have one handi and at this point don't feel the need for another but I do love my little 223.  Well maybe the 204 Ruger.  Something about snapping that thing open, droping another shell in an slapping it shut.  And the bull barrel just keeps on soaking up the heat.  Course the 223 don't generate that much to start with.  I can't comment on the 7-08, never owned one.  So if you like to tinker with rifles and are just mildly mechanically minded, you will probably never regret getting one.  I for one sure don't.
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