Author Topic: .350 Legend  (Read 1547 times)

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Offline Specklebelly

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.350 Legend
« on: May 04, 2021, 02:59:32 PM »
I have been somewhat intrigued ever since I discovered this round a few weeks ago.  I have done some research and this seems like a fun cartridge.  Any real world users out there that can give some color on the Legend? 
Specklebelly

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Offline HWB13

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Re: .350 Legend
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2021, 03:47:27 PM »
I have built 2 on ar platforms and a good friend picked up an ruger American for his wife.  I like the cartridge, although I have yet to get to shoot anything but paper.  I carried mine while hunting on the farm where I live.  Still hard to give up my big 35 when I'm in the big woods.  But in the ar platform it carries great.
Kevin   
Handi's:17 Mach2, 17 HMR,17 WSM, 22LR, 22 Win Mag, 204 Ruger, 22 Hornet UV, 22-250 UV, 25-06, 30-30, 35 Whelen, 30-06, 20gaX2, 20GA ultra Slug, 12ga ultra slug, 12 ga Turkey, H&W 45-70 BC X2, 45 LC CC, 44 Mag, 500 S&W and 140+ non-H&R types

If you have to shoot more than once you should not have shot the first time.

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: .350 Legend
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2021, 02:45:54 AM »
I haven't tried it yet but I would love to have one in an AR platform.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline 45/70fan

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Re: .350 Legend
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2021, 03:37:39 AM »
Several guys on another forum I'm on use it for deer hunting. If that's what you want it for and using factory ammo stick with the 170 gr and 180 gr loads.The 150 gr loads aren't proving to anchor deer.  I've not seen any complaints about accuracy.  Also be aware if you're a reloader these use .355 bullets.

Offline HWB13

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Re: .350 Legend
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2021, 04:29:22 AM »
I do shoot the 180 factory stuff,  not because a 150 won't anchor the game,  but because they,  pre covid  s##t, were about 2 dollars a box cheaper.  With proper shot placement they all work. I have seen a 22 Hornet,  45 gr soft point, anchor a 170 lbs buck in his tracks.  Would it be my first choice no.  In the past I carried a 308 I sighted in with 180 soft points.  I also carried 150 ballistic tips , walking or stalking the gun was filled with the 180's. Setting in the stand over an open field it was stuffed with the 150's I knew the difference in point of aim/point of impact. Could either do the job, yes. Was the impact shift big not,  but the quick shot in the woods killed the deer just as dead as the 150 across the field.  Just my opinion.
Kevin   
Handi's:17 Mach2, 17 HMR,17 WSM, 22LR, 22 Win Mag, 204 Ruger, 22 Hornet UV, 22-250 UV, 25-06, 30-30, 35 Whelen, 30-06, 20gaX2, 20GA ultra Slug, 12ga ultra slug, 12 ga Turkey, H&W 45-70 BC X2, 45 LC CC, 44 Mag, 500 S&W and 140+ non-H&R types

If you have to shoot more than once you should not have shot the first time.

Offline Specklebelly

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Re: .350 Legend
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2021, 02:21:01 PM »
The only reason I even know about this round is because it seems this is the only ammo I see available when centerfire is at the stores.   :)

I kept seeing them and did some digging.  Thanks for the info guys, I appreciate the thoughts. 

My primary purpose would be for hogs.  Would it work on them?
Specklebelly

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Mark 12:28-31

Offline HWB13

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Re: .350 Legend
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2021, 02:23:56 PM »
I think it would make a great hog gun,  specially in a semi auto
Kevin   
Handi's:17 Mach2, 17 HMR,17 WSM, 22LR, 22 Win Mag, 204 Ruger, 22 Hornet UV, 22-250 UV, 25-06, 30-30, 35 Whelen, 30-06, 20gaX2, 20GA ultra Slug, 12ga ultra slug, 12 ga Turkey, H&W 45-70 BC X2, 45 LC CC, 44 Mag, 500 S&W and 140+ non-H&R types

If you have to shoot more than once you should not have shot the first time.

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: .350 Legend
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2021, 02:11:03 AM »
I do shoot the 180 factory stuff,  not because a 150 won't anchor the game,  but because they,  pre covid  s##t, were about 2 dollars a box cheaper.  With proper shot placement they all work. I have seen a 22 Hornet,  45 gr soft point, anchor a 170 lbs buck in his tracks.  Would it be my first choice no.  In the past I carried a 308 I sighted in with 180 soft points.  I also carried 150 ballistic tips , walking or stalking the gun was filled with the 180's. Setting in the stand over an open field it was stuffed with the 150's I knew the difference in point of aim/point of impact. Could either do the job, yes. Was the impact shift big not,  but the quick shot in the woods killed the deer just as dead as the 150 across the field.  Just my opinion.

Yep, it's all about where you put it. I shot a 150 lb buck a couple years ago with a 60 grain Nosler Partition handloaded in 5.56 brass from my AR. Hit him in the heart, he dropped immediately, got back up and went 40 yards and was completely done. Big blood trail but didn't need it.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline Moleman

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Re: .350 Legend
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2021, 07:15:30 AM »
We have been hunting with the 357AR which is the predecessor to the 350L since 2012 and also have 350L and reamer. Same COL, 350L has .005" more base diameter and a .050" longer case that because of the COL limits of an ar15 magazine in effect just covers up the bullet .050" more and prevents you from using longer ogive bullets since they both headspace on the case mouth. Think winchester tried to corner the market on the 9mm bore they went with v/s 357 but there are plenty of bullet options and you can even resize .357-.358" bullets if you reload.  Haven't shot any deer with the legend yet but don't expect the minute differences to make any difference, it should do fine on deer out to 200yds with 170-180gr bullets.  If you're looking at an ar15, don't go any longer than a carbine length gas system even on a 20" barrel.  The best mags are the duramags.

Online DDZ

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Re: .350 Legend
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2021, 09:18:12 AM »
I won a 350L but traded the value for it for another firearm. Just didn't have a use for it. I have a 45-70 that will do anything the 350 will do plus some. the 350L, like the 450 BUshmaster was developed for states that only allow straight walled cartridge cases for hunting. Like Ohio. Ruger  Ruger has sold a lot of their 450 Bushmaster rifles to people that live in Ohio alone. Being the Bushmaster was developed first, and has a grasp on the market. Not sure how popular the 350L is going to be.     
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline Mule 11

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Re: .350 Legend
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2021, 10:18:24 AM »
I am not through playing with the old whiz bangs yet. Hope I live long enough to play with the new...

Offline Freezer

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Re: .350 Legend
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2021, 03:15:40 AM »
Before posting I wanted to confirm what I read in the past about this cartridge. It was developed as a straight wall deer cartridge for states where bottle neck cartridges are prohibited. IIRC the main complaint was the didn't use the .38 (.357) caliber bullet which would have given it more versatility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.350_Legend

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: .350 Legend
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2021, 03:56:04 AM »
hornady ruined it when they made it so people had to buy there ammo for it. Should have just been a necked down 556 case with a 358 bullet. Would have made it a much easier to feed gun and a much better cast bullet shooter and you could have made brass out of 556 brass laying on the ground at the range. Just didnt make sense. Except for hornadys ammo factory.
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Offline Moleman

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Re: .350 Legend
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2021, 10:07:05 AM »
Before posting I wanted to confirm what I read in the past about this cartridge. It was developed as a straight wall deer cartridge for states where bottle neck cartridges are prohibited. IIRC the main complaint was the didn't use the .38 (.357) caliber bullet which would have given it more versatility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.350_Legend

The WIKI page is often cited since it lists the 350 Legend as using .357"
The initial spec sheet proposed to SAAMI had the chamber neck diameter too tight for .357" bullets but was quickly changed to possibly allow for .357" bullets at least on paper.  When people measure the bullets on factory ammo they find them to be .355".  The push for winchester to say .357" comes from them wanting more sales. Sort of like 357 sig is a 9mm and should be called 355/9mm sig, but even less people would buy it.  They're playing a stupid game that since there is overlap between .357 magnum tolerances and 350 legend tolerances that they are the same thing so that users in states that have a minimum caliber of .357" would be allowed to use them.  Don't get me wrong, I feel the .002" difference is so minor that you'd never be able to tell a difference on any shot game in the field.  Winchester knew that going in and could of gone with .357" sized bullets and bores. So why lie about it unless there is some financial reason like sales and cutting out huge sections of your potential customer base?

 The 350L calls for a .357" bullet with a tolerance of -.003" compared to the SAAMI specs for 357mag Lead bullets .359"with a tolerance of  -.003, or jacketed .358" with a tolerance of  -.003".  Similar tolerance applies for barrels where the minimum barrel bore diameter of the 357 mag is .355" with a tolerance of + .004" and the 350l is .355" with a tolerance of + .002".  The freebore diameters are: 350L .357" +.002"; and 357Mag .357 mag .357" +.004".      Some guns out there like the Rugers, have a chamber who's tolerances are on the larger side and will easily chamber .357" diameter bullets. Others will not as it is possible by the specs to have a .357" bullet and .357" freebore which is tighter than normal +.0005" over bullet diameter match chamber freebore.    Even winchester who will say that their bullets in their loaded ammo are .357" sells the same bullets for reloading as .355".  https://www.midwayusa.com/s?searchTerm=350+legend+bullets

The case is also unique.  The 357AR is basically a rimless 357Max run at 55K psi made from 223/5.56 cases with a little added body taper to get it to feed better usually with a .382"-.385" base diameter of the chamber to the .392" of the 350 legend.  I agree that the extra case taper would only help it feed better, but it's not really needed as they feed fine at .382".  There are also guys that make 5.45x39 cases with a similar base dia of the legend out of 223 cases.  so 223/5.56 cases can be used but you'd have to be willing to accept more case failures and a shorter reloading life.  Starline has 223 basic brass which works great for 357AR and I've seen where guys made 350L with it early on.  Usually I'll get close to a dozen loads out of a 357AR RP/WIN case or a few less out of the starline if you keep the loads reasonable.

The case length of 1.650" v/s 357max/357AR at 1.600" is what gets me.  They're both meant to be fired out of an ar15 so you have the COL limits of the magazine for both which means that extra case length on the legend is only covering up the bullet .050" more, so why do it?   There were very few 9mm bullets that could handle 350L speeds when it came out but there were some .357"-.358" bullets that could handle the same speeds and be in the 158gr-200gr sweet spot for both cartridges.  With the longer case length prevented some bullets from being used because the casemouth was now into the bullet ogive which gives you a smaller case mouth diameter which will cause issues on a case that headspaces on a small .010"ish step in the chamber.   Headspacing on the case mouth is the main reason I feel they went with 9mm bore over .357.  If the casemouth dia is too small the crimped area can slip into the freebore which will prevent the casemouth from opening up when fired.  Most of the 357/358 bullets have a cannelure and reloaders that don't understand how a straight walled cartridge headspaces can't help themselves from roll crimping good n tight into the cannelure which can cause excessive headspace.   Since winchester went to the point of making a new case they should of made a new belted case. Headspace would no longer be an issue and idiots could rollcrimp to their hearts content.

Inclued is a pic of basically my last point on headspacing.  The case separations were caused by a bad chamber and winchesters own ammo that didn't meet it's own specs for minimum case mouth diameter.  The cases were slipping into the improperly cut freebore and were unable to expand as described above.  you can see the steps on the casemouths where they slipped into the freebore, and the miscut freebore where the rougher reamer was pushed in too far and reduced the casemouth/freebore step in the chamber which allowed it.



Offline neckisred

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Re: .350 Legend
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2021, 11:21:36 AM »
For the non-reloader, the 350 Legend isn't a bad choice, but it could have been way better had Winchester left greed out of the design.