Author Topic: Well, nitrated some paper last night  (Read 1254 times)

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Offline Gatofeo

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Well, nitrated some paper last night
« on: March 21, 2003, 07:53:14 AM »
It has been 30 years or more since I made nitrated paper for paper cartridges for a cap and ball revolver.
I couldn't remember how much potassium nitrate (saltpeter) I used in the water but I found a reference that said 2 Tablspoons per quart of warm water.
This dissolved quickly in the warm water in a Mason jar. I used tracing paper, sold in hobby stores, for the paper. It's slightly thinner than computer paper. Years ago I used onionskin typing paper but good luck finding that today!
Anyway, I used a large, glass cake pan to soak the tracing paper. An 8-1/2 by 11 inch sheet of paper is larger than the bottom of the glass pan, so I had to trim the paper to about 9-1/2 inches wide.
I soaked one sheet at a time for a few minutes, chasing out all bubbles under the paper with the back side of a spoon (the wet paper tears easily).
While the paper soaked a few minutes, I hung a string across the kitchen sink, between the cabinets, and grabbed some clothespins.
When the paper was saturated, I hung the paper to dry over the sink, so any excess would fall harmlessly into the sink.
I did three pages, figuring that was enough for a few dozen .36 and .44-caliber paper cartridges.
I saved the solution in the same jar, labeled it and put it in a cool, dry place.
Though I used high-grade potassium nitrate sold by the local pharmacy, I'm told that stump remover sold by stores is nearly pure potassium nitrate.
I was in Wal-Mart last week and looked at a can of the stuff (look in the gardening section, in the same aisle as weed killers).
The can of stump remover didn't say how much potassium nitrate it contained. It only said it contained the stuff. But others who have posted messages have used it with good effect, apparently.
It's cheaper than buying the stuff from the pharmacy, and a whole lot more available (I had to order mine from the pharmacist and wait two weeks).
I'm sanding the 3/8 and 1/2 inch wooden dowel right now, as a form to roll the paper around. As I sand, I occasionally check the dowel's diameter against a chamber of the revolver's cylinder.
I'm thinking that I want slightly looser than a slip-fit in the chamber, to leave room for the thickness of the paper too.
I should have them sanded down this weekend. I don't have a half-inch drill or I'd chuck the 1/2 inch dowel in that and make quick work of it. I've been using my cordless drill to help me sand down the 3/8 inch dowel, however.
I tried a match to some small scraps of the nitrated paper this morning, when it was dry. It sparkled as it burned slowly but surely, just as I had remembered it.
Hollywood gives the impression in movies that nitrated paper bursts into flames immediately. Gambling bookies have used nitrated paper to take bets over the phone and keep records for years.
If their booking operation gets busted, they need only touch a lit cigarette to the paper and it immediately begins to turn to ash, destroying the evidence.
But it's not a quick process. The paper burns slowly and I don't see how evidence could be quickly destroyed this way. Perhaps bookies use a much stronger solution of potassium nitrate for soaking their paper.
I'll have to experiment with this. Perhaps more than 2 Tablespoons of potassium nitrate per quart of water would aid ignition.
For the moment, I'm going to try this paper I just made and see how it works.
I'll be posting my results sometime soon. Don't touch that dial! Stayed tuned to GTFO for more further adventures of that lovable, grumpy and sexy ol' desert cat, Gatofeo!  :)
"A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44."

Offline Buckshotliam

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Well, nitrated some paper last night
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2003, 04:15:51 AM »
You 'ol desert cat,

I'm waiting with bated breath!

Buckshot Liam

Offline Charlie Detroit

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Well, nitrated some paper last night
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2003, 04:33:58 AM »
You might try magicians' Flash Paper...it really bursts into flames...
I ain't paranoid but every so often, I spin around real quick.--just in case
Sometimes I have a gun in my hand when I spin around.--just in case
I ain't paranoid, but sometimes I shoot when I spin around.--just in case

Offline Gatofeo

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Well, nitrated some paper last night
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2003, 07:21:37 AM »
Yeah ... looked at magician's flash paper ... seems kinda fragile.
Besides, last time I walked in the magician's shop some smart-a** grabbed me up and pulled me outta a hat!
Sheesh ... how embarassing. Not much of a magician that can't tell a rabbit from a cat.
"A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44."

Offline Alferd Packer

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Magician's flash paper
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2003, 06:22:37 PM »
How about using cigarette paper soaked in Pot. Nitrate solution to make flash paper. Dried afterward of course.

Offline Smitty308

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Nitrated Paper
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2003, 09:35:14 PM »
Mr. Cat  :D
This is my first post to this forum.  Lotta stuff here.  Looks like a great resource.
I thought I would share my experience with nitrated paper and flash paper.  I have a Berdan Sharps repro.  I went through the soaking of tracing paper in potassium nitrate too.  Soaking, drying, and cutting was a real booger as far as I was concerned.  Then, one day I was looking through the Dixie Gunworks Catalog and there was an artile on how to make your own combustable cartriges.  At the end of the article they mentioned that cigarette rolling papers are nitrated and will self consume.  They are right.  When I make 45-70 cartriges I stick two papers together and roll around a dowell.  I use the clear glue stick you get at stationery stores - Dixie recommends it because it is non toxic.  I am not shcilling for Dixie.  Just citing refs.  The cigarette paper completely self consumes where the paper I made myself didn't.
Also tried flash paper.  Didn't like it.  It's flimsey, and uses some kind of zink.  Real thouchy stuff.
If you decide to keep making your own paper the stump remover is plenty pure for your purposes.  The gun won't notice either.
I'm usually the one asking questions so I hope sharing my experience in this area helps.
Smitty308
Sometimes I sit and think.  Sometimes I just sit.

Offline waffenschmied

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Chlorate of Potassium
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2004, 10:07:59 AM »
Quote from: Charlie Detroit
You might try magicians' Flash Paper...it really bursts into flames...


With respect, and realising this is old thread, better "Cartridge" paper can be made with Chlorate of Potassium. Satuate solution, and soak. Cleaner burning and converts into more of a "Flash" paper.

Additionally, one may (With high cotton rag content paper) create an analog to "Guncotton".

Offline MOGorilla

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Well, nitrated some paper last night
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2004, 01:49:50 AM »
Didn't catch this post the first time around.  The magician/flash paper I believe is true nitro-cellulose.   Soaking paper in a potassioum nitrate solution merely permeates the paper with the KNO3 crystals. (sorry, I'm a chemist and more used to writing it that way).  You get a full burn, but it is a slower ignition.  True flash paper is made from paper with a very high cellulose content, onion skin was ideal.  The paper is treated with a mixture of sulfuric acid and nitric acid, which in turn nitrates the cellulose bonds.  This stuff is an explosive when packed correctly, but I don't think the magician stuff is very nitrated-it doesn't take much to get a good quick burn.

Offline waffenschmied

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Nitro-Cellulose
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2004, 02:00:47 AM »
Quote from: MOGorilla
Didn't catch this post the first time around.  The magician/flash paper I believe is true nitro-cellulose.   Soaking paper in a potassioum nitrate solution merely permeates the paper with the KNO3 crystals. (sorry, I'm a chemist and more used to writing it that way).  You get a full burn, but it is a slower ignition.  True flash paper is made from paper with a very high cellulose content, onion skin was ideal.  The paper is treated with a mixture of sulfuric acid and nitric acid, which in turn nitrates the cellulose bonds.  This stuff is an explosive when packed correctly, but I don't think the magician stuff is very nitrated-it doesn't take much to get a good quick burn.



Yes, as noted in post, one may convert paper to "Flash" type, I felt process of creating said analog of "Gun Cotton" beyond most. Thus, substitution of Chlorate of Pottasium as stronger oxidiser, (Than Nitrate) better combustion of paper. At least (As I qualify) in my experience.