Author Topic: what kind of sense does this make  (Read 1709 times)

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Offline Dee

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Re: what kind of sense does this make
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2022, 05:35:09 PM »
Fighting a war with troops is a crazy notion.  The Chinese will win that one every time.  If you must go to war, you hit the enemy with the biggest bombs available.  If you're not willing to do that, then you're playing by really dumb rules.  If the enemy knows you don't play their silly games, they might think twice about starting anything.  If not, well everyone loses.

This is not the first time we've had a schithead for a President.  This time though, our enemies have to know they are dealing with an unknowable thoughtless fool who hasn't had a rational thought in a long time.  These are scary times.

Bravo! 100%
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Ranger99

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Re: what kind of sense does this make
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2022, 06:03:24 PM »
IMO- probably a ploy to hornswoggle a
good many servicemembers out of any
retirement they may have coming.
I've seen more and more where retirement
funds and pension funds are bankrupted
and short of the money they've taken
from paychecks, with no good explanation
of where the money has gone.
Just me- if you take money from someone's
earnings, you owe that person the money
you took at the very least regardless of
the circumstances. I see where people
"lose their pension " for whatever reason.
Well maybe I can understand not receiving
the employer contributed part, but whatever
was deducted from a paycheck belongs
to the person it was taken from by rights.
I understand things aren't quite that way,
but it should be
Lots of people stealing with a pen these days
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: what kind of sense does this make
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2022, 09:04:45 PM »
good post!!!!!!!!!!!
Fighting a war with troops is a crazy notion.  The Chinese will win that one every time.  If you must go to war, you hit the enemy with the biggest bombs available.  If you're not willing to do that, then you're playing by really dumb rules.  If the enemy knows you don't play their silly games, they might think twice about starting anything.  If not, well everyone loses.

This is not the first time we've had a schithead for a President.  This time though, our enemies have to know they are dealing with an unknowable thoughtless fool who hasn't had a rational thought in a long time.  These are scary times.
blue lives matter

Online ironglow

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Re: what kind of sense does this make
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2022, 06:29:33 AM »
Not too long ago, I had a conversation with a omanager of a firm that provides components for
 strategic weapons..
   Without betraying any classified material, he told me we have some "catching up" to do..

   Not far behind..and Trump was a boon for new weapons systems...but little hope with the skunks we now have supposedly "keeping the store" !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Bob Riebe

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Re: what kind of sense does this make
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2022, 10:24:51 AM »
How about if the one in charge says get on your knees and smoke my pole? Your job is to follow orders. All orders. Officer says jump. You jump. Officer says grab your ankles. You grab your ankles?

 Lawful Orders

Military members failing to obey lawful orders issued by their superiors risk serious consequences. Article 90 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) outlines the crime of willful disobedience by a military member a superior commissioned officer. Article 91 covers willful disobedience of a superior Noncommissioned or Warrant Officer. Article 92 conveys what constitutes the crime of disobedience of any lawful order (the disobedience does not have to be "willful" under this article).

These articles require the obedience of LAWFUL orders. Not only should an unlawful order not be obeyed, obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution. Military courts have long held that military members are accountable for their actions even while following orders.


Sounds logical but in reality it is hard to the utmost extreme to be able to use this.
Some have tried and lost , partly because courts do not like to deal with and toss to some one else, who does not want to deal with it , tosses it some where else....

In reality, you are damned if you do, and damned to a greater degree if you do not.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: what kind of sense does this make
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2022, 11:44:04 AM »
While I wasn't covered by the UCMJ I once had a similar situation.

I was employed at an Army depot and under same restriction of what happens if ya disobey a direct order from a superior. I was a civilian employee of the Army.

I immediate supervisor who worked directly for the depot commander a bird colonel told me to work some of my folks overtime BUT only if I had proper funding to cover it. I did not have that funding in my budget.

He left on leave and went home for the day. That left another division chief at the same level in the organization in charge for the afternoon.

That acting director called me and gave me a direct order to work my people and to charge it to an illegal funding code. I was in supply and he ordered me to use maintenance money. That legally constitutes theft of funds.

I told him I could not legally do that. He made it a direct order and since he had been appointed acting director for the afternoon he was in effect my direct supervisor that afternoon.

So I called the person in charge of maintenance funding and asked her if she had funds that were for both maintenance and supply and she said no. She then asked me what was I gonna do report it to the commander. I told her I wasn't sure but yeah I thought I might.

I then called the depot lawyers and asked what to do given that I had been given a direct order to do something illegal. He directed me to write a memo to the acting director, telling him that what he had directed me to do was illegal and that I had to assume he was aware of something I was not aware of that made it legal and that therefore I was going to do it as directed but under strong protest. He said it was my only option to avoid being fired or prosecuted.

Before my secretary even got the memo typed I got a phone call with another order. Report immediately to the director's office. I explained the memo and that it was not yet typed. I was told to get to the director's office with no hesitation. I complied.

Once there the acting director was on the phone with the director of maintenance, their funding lady, the depot colonel and who knows who else but I think the depot lawyer was also on the line. I was told to sit down and wait.

A few minutes later my actual supervisor the director of quality assurance walked in and went into his office. He joined the phone call. That call lasted another 15-20 minutes. After it my real supervisor walked out and told me to NOT work my folks overtime unless I had correct supply funds to do so which he knew I did not. So I did not work my folks overtime that day.

I sure got a lot of folks' attention that day and kept my job and me and my actual supervisor were still fine afterward. The other division chief who had never been anything but an enemy and competitor for the director job should it come open again still hated me and was still looking for a chance to get me fired. He never pulled that trick off.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Online Mule 11

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Re: what kind of sense does this make
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2022, 12:14:02 PM »
We are getting a lot of direct orders from our government right now that are beyond their pay grade and unconstitutional. Not gonna get any better any time soon. Look what fidels little bitch is doing on our border. Coming to a free nation near you soon. I could go on for a bit...
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Offline Dee

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Re: what kind of sense does this make
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2022, 12:47:59 PM »
While I wasn't covered by the UCMJ I once had a similar situation.

I was employed at an Army depot and under same restriction of what happens if ya disobey a direct order from a superior. I was a civilian employee of the Army.

I immediate supervisor who worked directly for the depot commander a bird colonel told me to work some of my folks overtime BUT only if I had proper funding to cover it. I did not have that funding in my budget.

He left on leave and went home for the day. That left another division chief at the same level in the organization in charge for the afternoon.

That acting director called me and gave me a direct order to work my people and to charge it to an illegal funding code. I was in supply and he ordered me to use maintenance money. That legally constitutes theft of funds.

I told him I could not legally do that. He made it a direct order and since he had been appointed acting director for the afternoon he was in effect my direct supervisor that afternoon.

So I called the person in charge of maintenance funding and asked her if she had funds that were for both maintenance and supply and she said no. She then asked me what was I gonna do report it to the commander. I told her I wasn't sure but yeah I thought I might.

I then called the depot lawyers and asked what to do given that I had been given a direct order to do something illegal. He directed me to write a memo to the acting director, telling him that what he had directed me to do was illegal and that I had to assume he was aware of something I was not aware of that made it legal and that therefore I was going to do it as directed but under strong protest. He said it was my only option to avoid being fired or prosecuted.

Before my secretary even got the memo typed I got a phone call with another order. Report immediately to the director's office. I explained the memo and that it was not yet typed. I was told to get to the director's office with no hesitation. I complied.

Once there the acting director was on the phone with the director of maintenance, their funding lady, the depot colonel and who knows who else but I think the depot lawyer was also on the line. I was told to sit down and wait.

A few minutes later my actual supervisor the director of quality assurance walked in and went into his office. He joined the phone call. That call lasted another 15-20 minutes. After it my real supervisor walked out and told me to NOT work my folks overtime unless I had correct supply funds to do so which he knew I did not. So I did not work my folks overtime that day.

I sure got a lot of folks' attention that day and kept my job and me and my actual supervisor were still fine afterward. The other division chief who had never been anything but an enemy and competitor for the director job should it come open again still hated me and was still looking for a chance to get me fired. He never pulled that trick off.

Police Chiefs are appointed, with politics usually involved, and Sheriffs are elected, politics always involved.
I've had both Police Chiefs, and Sheriffs order me to do unlawful things. "I ALWAYS" refused.
Were there consequences? About 30% of the time.

All they could do was fire me, and then justification would be the object of scrutiny.

I've butted heads with lieutenants, captains, assistant chiefs, and county attorneys. Hard feelings? About 80% of the time.
Your decisions are, or should be, made on what is right, and what is legal.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett