Deerstalker, Omega, Encore....Oh My

[Carphunter]

Well, I'd backed off buying a blackpowder for a long time now.

But, after handling my cousin's new brown laminate Omega...decided it was time to get off the pot.

I had asked a bunch of questions on the old shooters.com forum, but since it's gone, I can't find some of the stuff I had asked about before.

To this point, I've shot an Encore 209x45, and a Cabela's sporterized Hawken.  Both of these rifles felt good, and I bullseyed easily from a bench at 50 yds.  Balance and shouldering on both rifles was good (the hawken really surprised me since I figured I wouldn't be used to that style stock.

In the past, I'd only handled the Omega composite stocks...and the balance was so bad, i dismissed them offhand.  Now that I've handled a laminate, they are back in the runnning.

I know the Encore and Omega can go up to 150 loads, but from past stuff I've read, I know this doesn't mean a whole lot since you may never be able to use max load to get best accuracy depending on bullet, and at iron sight ranges up to 100 yds (which for me will be max range while deer hunting).  So, if the Deerstalker max's out at 100 gn...I don't think it's a big deal.

Encores, for the moment, are probably my last choice of rifle due to price and the fact that I don't think I'd ever change barrels on it.  Also, I know if you get a sloppy trigger, you're investing in some work there.

I can't find anyone who stocks Deerstalkers, so I can only guess and hope that they feel and handle in a similar fashion to the Cabelas sporter.  I'm leaning to the stainless model for maintainence reasons.  I think I'm also leaning towards 50 cal in the Deerstalker. (again, only hunting whitetails with it)

I've veered away from the GPR and GP rifles mainly because I think I want stainless hardware, and the one time I handled a friends GP rifle, I could never shoulder the rifle without drilling my self with the sharp lower edge of that damn crescent stock:)

At this precise moment in time, I guess I'm favoring the Deerstalker for price and aesthetic reasons.  

If anyone cares to chime in and give me an opinion on this apples to oranges comparison, I'd love to hear it...

Also, if there are any Wisconsinites reading this...anyone know of a place in central WI that sells Deerstalkers so I could get a look at one?

[simonkenton]

I am with you on the Lyman.
I love the looks of the rifle, and I know it is authentic, but that damn buttplate is too curved for me.
In fact, I have a TC Hawken, which has much less of a curve than the Lyman, and it is curved too much.
I am looking at getting a replacement stock. These come without a buttplate and I am going to put a big fat buttplate with very little curve on it.
I am with you on the Omega, I like this rifle very much, it feels like it is custom made for me.
Is the Deerstalker a round ball rifle?

[Carphunter]

The stainless Deerstalker is 1:32 twist.

One question a friend brought up is do the Lyman's use a nipple config that makes the fire path a right angle to the firing area, or do they offer a straight or rounded path to the firing area?

[rollingb]

"2 hour's" worth of labor, and, a $15.00 butt-plate from TOTW,.... ot'a make the GPR "fit" you fellas, thet are "bound and determined" to hold a hawken-style rifle like a large bore "fowler" (which it ain't)!!  :eek:    

[crow_feather]

Speaking of Track of the Wolf, I sent them an electric mail about gettin a 58 cal huntin rifle gun in a kit and they were the nicest people.  Sent me a reply quick and it weren't no short one either.  For about 5 medium ones, I can get a kit that shoots a 58 and not have it look like a modern almost a copy - plus it will have the 1 1/8 barrel etc.

They be nice people rollingb!

C F

Now mind you this is no advertisement - I like em - don't care if anyone else does.

[crow_feather]

Carphunter.
1. Omega - to many people on this forum is somthin out in space.
2. for a few hundred years, men and women have protected them selves from animals and bad people with a flame that shoots around a corner.  It works well, straight line ignition is a myth of the handicapped.
3. If any rifle can't shoot one hundred yards and kill something - nobody needs it and you won't find it unless it says squirrel rifle on it.
4. With practice, any rifle can be mounted without hurtin yourself.  People just don't want to practice these days.
5. There is a line between black powder rifles and those other things that are misfits impersonating muzzleloaders.  It is easy to walk both sides of the line, but you best know the person your talkin to before you speak about one side or ta other.

[rollingb]

Crow-Feather,.... "Which" .58 did you git the qoute on from TOTW??

[Snowshoe]

I have the Deerstalker in .50 cal with the 1 in 48" twist. It is the best rifle for off hand shooting that I have ever shouldered. I use round balls most of the time, and have taken 2 whitetails at just over 100 yards, and many at closer range. I have used bullets ranging from 250g to 380g to take deer, and find that I like the round ball the best. Those other THINGS you mentioned, would not get a space in my gun cabinet.

[simonkenton]

Some people get defensive when I say the Lyman buttplate is curved too much.
I have been shooting muzzleloaders since 1966. I have developed a shooting style that is comfortable to me, and I am a good shot.
I will modify a rifle to suit my shooting style.
I will not modify my shooting style to suit a rifle.
The Lyman buttplate is curved too much, for me.
If you like the Lyman, then shoot it, it doesn't bother me what particular style of buttplate you prefer.

[Winter Hawk]

I am also one who does not like the curved butt on the Lyman.  However, I fixed it.  Took the butt and toe plates off, drew a line from just in front of the rear screw hole for the toe plate up tangent to the curve of the butt.  Then I sawed on this line, very carefully.  Took the butt plate and placed it face down on an anvil and hammered it down until it fit the new contours of the butt.  I had to file the sides of the butt plate down even with the wood and do the same with the wood where it was fatter than the butt plate.  Cut the toe plate down to size, drilled another hole for the rear screw, cold blued all the bare metal and in a couple of hours I was done.  I then sanded all the black gunk Lyman puts on, off the stock and put about three coats of Lin-Speed on her, and she is now real pretty and a pleasure to shoot.

I have done this to several other rifles in the past and it made them all happier for me to shoot.

Back to the original question, do whatever floats your stick.  I like traditional rifles.  If I want one that's waterproof I'll get it finished with Black Teflon but haven't seen the need for it in my muzzleloaders yet.

Whatever you decide, get out and burn lots of powder!

-WH-

[crow_feather]

I seem to remember Mr Bridger telling me once that he hated the curved butt plate on his Hawken and he flattened it out a bit.  I guess he had somethin going there - but never did he put black teflon on it.

Rollingb,
They mentioned the Leman 58 with 40" barrel and the fullstock Hawken in percussion with a 36" 58 barrel.  I want to get the full stock Hawken with a drum and nipple on it sose it looks like a conversion.

C F

[rollingb]

WAAUUUGGGGGHHHHHH!!.... Crow Feather!!.... I like them fullstock  Hawkens!!!!

I've built'em with both, 42" and 36" barrels, tho they was all 1" !!

I don't know if'n I be "man enough" tho'ta,....  tote one 'round in tha "hills" with a 1 1/8" barrel!! :mrgreen:  

[KING]

  As per usual.......you guys cracked me up......again.........................O.K............I like the Lyman buttplate..........must be cause I am kinda contrary anyway,,,,,,,,,,stay safe...King

[rollingb]

King,.... I agree with you 115%,.... I like tha Lyman buttplate too!!!!!!!  

In fact,....... the "ONLY REASON" I ever bought a Lyman in tha first place,.... is fer tha "buttplate"!! :eek:  :-D

Now days,..... I jest buy the Lyman buttplates themselves, 'cause I don't have any innerest in the rest of the rifle!! :-D  :-D    :eek:  

To those of you who don't like the GPR "buttplate",..... jest "TRY" to load yore riflegun while on "HORSEBACK",.... and,... see how much "LUCK" you have!!!! :shock:  :mrgreen:  :music:  :noway:  :oh:  :-D  

[D R Greysun]

RollingB,
Ain't shootin' off yor horse kinda' like shootin' outta yor pick-up?  
D R

[rollingb]

D R Greysun,..... Shoot'n off a horse is a "LOT" better'n shoot'n out of a pick-up,.... 'cause ya don't haft'a "roll down" no danged window 'fore shoot'n,... and ya git better long-range shots due to the ball start'n out from an "elevated position"!!

I'd think shoot'n off "donkey-back",... would more closely resemble,... shoot'n out of a pick-up!!  :shock:   :-D  

As fer "reload'n",.... it's easy to load a muzzleloader on horse-back, 'cause you can put thet "hooked buttplate" in the stirrup ('side yore foot, or, even hook it over the "in-step" of yore foot) when ram'n a patched-ball down tha bore!!  (I wunder if anybuddy has tryed "thet" in'a pick-up!! :eek: )

[crow_feather]

rollingb,
Do I havta tell ya everthin.  Thet hooked butplate is fer holden down the gas pedel whilst yer reloadin.

C F

[rollingb]

Crow Feather,.... Thanks fer the advice!! :-D ..... I can see wher a feller could load "faster" thet way!! (say,.... 'bout 120 MPH !?!?)  :-D  

[crow_feather]

Rollingb,
Not only did they send me an electronic mail but they sent a reglar mail also thet includes the list of parts and I was wrong, it twas a 1" barrel on both - sorry fer the errer.

C F

What is up with this spill cheker thing, it kant spill nothin wright!

[rollingb]

Crow Feather,.... I've built several .58 Early Hawken fullstocks with 36"x1" barrels, and I like the way they balance!!
I've only built one thet had a 42"x1' barrel, and it was a mite too "muzzle-heavy" fer my tastes!! (all of'em shoot/shot real good tho!!)

I still gotta git a "flint" lock for this latest one I built so's it'll be a "convertable", and also git anuther .570 mold.
I been shoot'n .562's and .575's in'er, and git'n sub-2" groups at a hunnert yards with'er off cross-sticks!! (which I reckon ain't too bad fer'a "blind" fella!) :grin: :agree:

[crow_feather]

You ever get a mold from that fella in England? He makes a pretty good mold. I gotta 36 mold fromem and it works well - no sprue cutter tho.

C F

I keep hittin that spel check by accident and it takes another hour ta git the message sint.

[rollingb]

Guess I ain't familiar with them English molds,... wher'd ya see'em and are they cheaper'n Lymans??
I can always "chew" tha sprue off,.... if'n I haf'ta!!  

I ain't never seen no dad-blamed "spel check" yet,... thet worked right!! (ther's proof for'ya, thet modern technolgy is over-rated!!!!)

[crow_feather]

Dey must be spensive!  The English fella wants "pounds" of money.  Ifn a dollar weighs an ounce er so, then his molds could be in the hunreds.

I'll see ifn I can find the address again

C F

[Carphunter]

Well, I quit askin' questions and put my order in for a Stainless Deerstalker.

Might be takin' some shots this weekend

[crow_feather]

Rollingb,
Check out these prices!

C F

http://www.jt-bullet-moulds.co.uk/moulds.html#

[rollingb]

Thanks Crow Feather,.... I talked with a buddy'a mine last night, he used'ta have a .58 rifle.
Said he still had a .570 mold somewhers and if/when he finds it, he'll sell it to me fer 'bout 1/2 pound of money.

I always like to "pay in cash", so when he finds thet mold,.... I'll give him 1/2 pound of pennys!!  :-D  

[rollingb]

Carphunter,.... I think you picked the "best one" of the 3 you was consider'n!!

Now, are you go'n ta shoot "traditional" roundball in it,.... or, are you gonna use tha "MODERN stuff"?? :eek: