Author Topic: Recoil and grouping (Read 812 times)

MePlat · « **on:** March 14, 2004, 05:03:42 AM »

How well do you guys group at 25 yds offhand with your horrendous recoiling singleshots?

Lets hear of some group sizes for 5 shots or so.

How do you handle the recoil?

Duval · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2004, 08:18:56 AM »

I've got 3 Encore pistol barrels (13" - 15" with brake) in 416 Rigby, 375 H&H, and 50 Alaskan that you could say are 'horrendous' in the recoil department. I can keep groups in a 6" circle at 50 yards offhand, not because of the recoil and muzzle blast but because these barrels are all straight bull contour. It's impossible to keep these still without a rest of some kind. As for how I handle the recoil, I use the soft rubber grip and 'teacup' hold, putting my left hand all the way under the right gripping hand - it drives the NRA certified instructors nuts. Also, plugs and muffs for the ears, but I do that with any centerfire round.

Joe Kool · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2004, 08:25:52 PM »

I shoot a horrendous recoiling SSK 45/70 barrel on a Contender. With maximum loads, with jacketed or cast bullets, at a hundred yards (not 25), with an Aimpoint sight, I can shoot a 2" inch group, if I'm having a good day on the bench. With a 4 power scope on the barrel, inch groups are not uncommon.

MePlat · « **Reply #3 on:** March 15, 2004, 12:34:53 AM »

The key word in my post was "offhand".

Joe Kool · « **Reply #4 on:** March 15, 2004, 08:17:48 PM »

I never tried for a off hand group at 25 yds., but at 50 yds. I can keep all my shots on a 6 inch circle with a 22LR or the 45/70. I have a 10", 45 Colt barrel, which I load a 330 gr. cast bullet to 1450 fps. The recoil is heavy, with a lot of muzzle flip. With open sights, I can hit a 6 inch circle at 50 yds. I can keep 10 shots on a paper plate at a 150 yds. That is under ideal lighting conditions. When hunting, the lighting conditions and how well the target can be distinguished from the back ground, may limit the range, if the shot should be taken at all, with a handgun.

flyfisher · « **Reply #5 on:** March 16, 2004, 04:13:16 AM »

At 25 yards and my .375 Win (with 2x Bushnell), groups can easily be held to a pie plate, even on my worst day, and normally are held much tighter. With my .222 Rem and a 3-12x Burris, I find it harder to hold a group (but still will hold to the pie plate). I find that, even though the .375 has a ton more recoil, I can still hold it steadier than the .222. I find that the lighter barrel and scope configuration is easier to group freehand, regardless of the caliber I am using. Both are 14" bull barrels without brakes, and I don't really look at the .375 Win as a that hard kicking of calibers. The low magnification of both scopes helps too.

jhalcott · « **Reply #6 on:** March 16, 2004, 09:37:16 AM »

How well do you do meplat? I rarely ever shoot offhand even with a light 7 pound rifle.Ifyou are careful and don't stumble around in the woods you findthere is plenty of time to get a rest for a shot. In my home ,it is a different story! My defense guns all have laser sights and at 7 yards I can put the whole clip in your chest.WITHOUT turning on the lights!
ground hogs at 200 yards are not a problem with hunting handguns(Contenders,xp100's etc.) scoped with 2x8 scopes and rested on sand bags. Of course I take a table and bags when I hunt.Doesn't every body?

BIG GRIN &a:wink: jh

MePlat · « **Reply #7 on:** March 16, 2004, 10:21:00 AM »

jhalcott I asked what others could do not what I am capable of doing.The range where I shoot doesn't have many, make that almost none, that shoot heavy recoiling revolvers much less singleshots. I've been in the woods before and I know that there are rests one can use. I even have bought shooting sticks and also have homemade ones too. I shoot singleshots just like I do revolvers mostly offhand. Probably 95 percent of my practice shooting is offhand.
Also I don't shoot rifles offhand that is why they have buttstocks to shoot from the shoulder.
Personally I don't think my questions is any sillier than many others one will read on these and other forums.
I was just curious because in people telling how good they are there is always someone the will shoot groups that would make an NRA High Master shooter drool or even make a world class Olympic shooter green with envy when they shoot offhand.
My hat is, if wore one, off to these fine shooters and I wish i could be like them.

jhalcott · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2004, 03:27:41 PM »

I was only having some fun with you Meplat. I too have heard these fellows claims and take them with a dose of salt. I often tease the guy that brags about his itty bitty groups with an armbuster round by offering him a few shots with my 358JDJ.Which ,by the way,can hit beer cans or pop bottles at 200 yards off the bags if I do my part.! I had to get a break for it as it is painful for me to shoot anymore.Carpotunnel!(sp)
I also decided to try some cast 200 & 250 grain bullets in it to tame the recoil.Have not had a chance to cast any because of the weather.Can't wait till I get old and wimpy,guess I'll go back to 22rf and air guns. jh

B_Koes · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2004, 09:53:13 AM »

Quote from: Joe Kool

I never tried for a off hand group at 25 yds., but at 50 yds. I can keep all my shots on a 6 inch circle with a 22LR or the 45/70. I have a 10", 45 Colt barrel, which I load a 330 gr. cast bullet to 1450 fps. The recoil is heavy, with a lot of muzzle flip. With open sights, I can hit a 6 inch circle at 50 yds. I can keep 10 shots on a paper plate at a 150 yds. That is under ideal lighting conditions. When hunting, the lighting conditions and how well the target can be distinguished from the back ground, may limit the range, if the shot should be taken at all, with a handgun.

6" @ 50yds hardly extrapolates to a paper plate size at 150! If this is true, I'd like to recruit you for some silhouette shooting because those groups should easily convert to a 40x40. Oh, by the way, nobody in the history of IHMSA has fired a 40x40 with open sights from the standing (offhand) position. Hmmmmm...

Joe Kool · « **Reply #10 on:** March 18, 2004, 01:21:05 AM »

B_Koes, I used to shoot a lot of silhouette about 10 years ago, but between my business and remodeling my house I haven't been able to get to the matches. I may get back into it this summer. I mainly shot Unlimited, Stand Unlimited-Scoped, and Field Pistol-Scoped. I didn't shoot standing, open sights very much. When I did, most of the time, I could take all or almost all of the chickens and pigs. But by the time I got to the turkeys and rams, fatigue starts to take it's toll. If I started with the turkeys I could take most of them. When I shot the paper plate at 150 yds., the plate was pasted to a large piece of brown cardboard. The sky was bright over cast, which for me, is the best condition for shooting open sights. I could see the sights and the paper plate on the cardboard very well. Not having to shoot 20 round before starting to shoot the plate, I was not fatigued, and unlike silhouette shooting, I had no time limit. I took my time, if I didn't get the shot off, I could lower the gun, relax awhile, and try again. When the sighting felt good, I touched off the round. It probably took me 20 minutes to shoot the 10 rounds. You can't take that kind of time on the silhouette range.

MePlat · « **Reply #11 on:** March 18, 2004, 04:45:25 AM »

This goes back to what we use to do.. I could do better when I practiced more than what I can do now.
We also have all shot some fantastic target offhand but we deep down know that it mainly was just a fluke, or lady luck was shooting that particular target.
I really meant what kind of grouping do you do NOW OFFHAND on the average; not your best; not your worse but AVERAGE.
I am sorry I didn't make myself clear on that

jhalcott · « **Reply #12 on:** March 18, 2004, 06:18:15 AM »

the last time I got to shoot at our range(we've been remodeling) I shot at clay pigeons laying on the berm.The Ruger auto .22 fed flawlessly thru several boxes of ammo.I hit about 75% of the time and the misses were my fault.These were off hand shots and since a pigeon is about 4" in dia.I guess that I can group 4" with a low recoiling pistol at 25 yards.I shoot air pistol in my basement at about 9 yards and can keep the pellets on an air gun chicken.These tiny targets are barely larger than an inch.Maybe I should spend some time shooting at targets to see how good I really am?
jh

Joe Kool · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2004, 09:54:45 AM »

MePlat, when I'm having an average day shooting shooting, not a good day, with heavy recoiling handguns. Shooting 5 shots. With open sights at 50 yds. a 7" circle, at 100 yds., a 12" circle. With an Aimpoint on the barrel, at 50 yds. 6" circle, at a 100 yds, a 10" paper plate. As jhalcott pointed out, "Maybe I should spend some time shooting at targets to see how good I really am?" I hunt with my heavy recoiling handguns, I don't shoot at targets to try to shoot as small as group as possible. I shoot at targets to sight in, then I go hunting or plinking. I found heavy recoiling hand guns have a different point of impact shooting off hand, as they do off sandbags. After getting on target on the bags, I shoot at targets off hand, and dial the sights in. Over the summer I will shoot ground hogs with my heavy recoiling handguns, from various positions, and fine tune my sights under field conditions. Then I don't change my loads, so when deer season comes around my sights are fine tuned under fields conditions. I also do a bit of plinking at varying ranges, to keep in practice and stay acclimated to the recoil. I shoot at least 500 rounds a summer, with the heavy hitters alone.