45 ACP Reloaders...

[Patriot_1776]

...for all around plinking in my P220 45, I like the 230gr. FMJ RN.  Now my question comes like this, I have two Mfgs. I like the most.  They are Ranier Ballistics and Berry's Mfg..  I like those two the best because they are the only ones I know of currently (along with Speer) that offer "Total Metal Jacketing" on their bullets; including the heel.  Of those two, which is more reputable, high quality, and recommended for high volume plinking/shooting?  I prefer at this time Berry's over Ranier.  Reason being I like their "gumdrop"-shaped 230 grainers over Ranier's. I recall Ranier changed their RN design in the last year or two (I used them alot for my 45 Colts as well) to a sharper round nose, looking more like a large 9mm Luger round nose, instead of the more (in my opinion) traditional "gumdrop" 45cal 230gr RN. :?   Thanks for any input.

-Patriot

[JR1]

Hmm. I was just getting ready to reload the Berry's. My hunting partner gave me 500 of 'em, hadn't heard of 'em before, but was happy that they were jacketed.....so we'll see. I assume that they're priced like the Raniers and therefore as cheap as shooting lead, unless you roll your own.

[Patriot_1776]

JR1 wrote:

Hmm. I was just getting ready to reload the Berry's. My hunting partner gave me 500 of 'em, hadn't heard of 'em before, but was happy that they were jacketed.....so we'll see. I assume that they're priced like the Raniers and therefore as cheap as shooting lead, unless you roll your own.

I have had very good performance with them; the Berry's seem to be of very good quality.  I buy from Cabela's, and the Rainiers (found out that is the correct spelling :-) ) are slightly less expensive than Berry's.  But I do like the shape of the latter, and my gun seems to like them just fine; no feeding probs yet after several hundred.  My original question was also to find out if anybody knows whether the process of manufacture (such as plating techniques) by both companies are of equal and excellent quality, or if one was better than another.

-Patriot

[Mark whiz]

Quality-wise, they are about the same.

I've been loading the Rainier 200gr SWCs with AA#5 and shooting 1/4" groups out of my SA 1911-A1 Mil-Spec at 15yds.  Good Stuff.  :grin:

[rbwillnj]

Just for the record, Berrys does not make FMJ (Full Metal Jacket) bullets.  They make plated bullets.  Plated bullets are hard cast bullets with a thin copper plating.  If you likeum shootem, but they are basically lead bullets.

[Vern Humphrey]

I had a friend order bullets for me years ago -- he was ordering in bulk for several of us.  I had to use Berrys because that's what everyone else wanted.  I compared Berrys to my own cast bullets, and could tell no difference in performance.

[Patriot_1776]

Just for the record, Berrys does not make FMJ (Full Metal Jacket) bullets. They make plated bullets. Plated bullets are hard cast bullets with a thin copper plating. If you likeum shootem, but they are basically lead bullets.

Thanks rbwillnj, I did find out at their website the descriptons about jacketed, plated, etc.:
 
*What is the difference between Plated/Jacketed/Cast bullets
Berry's Preferred Plated bullets begin as a swaged lead core. The plating process works through electrolysis. The swaged lead cores are tumbled in an electrically charged cyanide bath containing high-grade copper ingots. The copper clings to the lead and the longer the bullets remain in the bath, the thicker the plating. Our bullets are plated to the correct size and then taken out of the bath.

Jacketed bullets start with a copper cup, which is "drawn up" into the form of a jacket. Lead is then infused into the jacket.

Cast bullets are made up of lead that has been poured into a bullet mould. These bullets come in various hardness levels depending upon the alloy of the lead. All of our cast bullets are lubed and all have the same hardness (about 20 bhu). We distinguish between Hardcast and Cowboy only in that our Cowboy bullets are often used in Cowboy Action Shooting events.

Comparison:
 Jacketed Bullets: Generally are most expensive but can be shot at magnum velocities and require less cleaning than Cast bullets.
 Plated Bullets: Not as expensive as Jacketed and cleaner than lead but you'll want to stay away from magnum velocities when loading plated bullets.
Cast Bullets: Usually cost the least, but are very "dirty" and often cannot be used in indoor ranges.

In short terms, plated bullets are the cost-effective "tweeners" in the bullet family. :wink:

BTW, it is funny to think, I have used Rainier's 230gr. Plated bullets in my 454 Casull before.  Seemed to work fine at mag velocities as well (chrono'd at around 1450-1500fps).  Sure knocked some metal plates around with it.  

-Patriot

[New Hampshire]

I use Berrys .357s and .40s.  They dont like fast velocities.  In .38 Specials they are pretty good.  In high end .357s accuracy drops off, and the .40s in the S&W out of a PC4 carbine are horrible.  I have not used the Raniers, but Ive been told they have a thicker plating (and conversly Speer has probably the thickest of the three,) so they might take the higher velocities better.  I think the thinner plating of the Berrys, added to the fact the cores are swaged, means that they dont grip the rifling very good at high velocity loadings.  I would go with the Raniers, but thats just me.  Instead, Im starting to switch over to bulk pack bullets instead.  They cost a bit more, but you can push them any speed you want.  Ive already done it with my Sig 220.  The Bulk Winchester 230s are just awesome in my gun.
Brian M.
P.S. I had contacted Berrys last year.  Ive since deleted the e-mail, but they told me to keep velocities around 1000 fps.

[rbwillnj]

I would agree with the cleaner to handle part.  I'm sure you will get less lead exposure during reloading than with lead bullets.  I'm not sure I understand why they would be any better than lead in an indoor range.  Once a Berry hits the steel, I think it would be pretty hard to tell the difference between a Berry and an all lead bullet.

[Patriot_1776]

I'm not sure I understand why they would be any better than lead in an indoor range. Once a Berry hits the steel, I think it would be pretty hard to tell the difference between a Berry and an all lead bullet.

They mean when the gun is discharged, the difference between a plain-base lead bullet, and a copper plated, or coated or whatever, there is less lead vapor, and particulates that are spewn around the shooter and the general area.  Of course, once the bullet impacts a hard surface, there will be lead flying everywhere, but most if not all the lead residue will occur downrange, not a foot or two away from the shooter.

-Patriot