Author Topic: Wartime vintage Russian Mosin Nagant rifles?! (Read 1314 times)

His lordship. · « **on:** March 25, 2004, 02:10:57 PM »

I bought a 1942 vintage 91/30, Izshevsk arsenal made, Mosin Nagant rifle in December, it is an arsenal rebuild, and in general seems to be a good gun. Some of the receivers of the 1942 era guns are roughly machined, mine is slightly rough, grind marks on parts, but it is otherwise not too bad.

The bolt, which has matching serial numbers to the receiver, is the worst example I have ever seen on any rifle. The slop in tolerances is very pronounced in regards to the fit between the various parts of the bolt. It almost wants to jump out at you when you hold the bolt separately, and wiggle sections of it. The floor plate of the rifle is also very loose at the latch connection.

What got my attention initially was that I could sometimes see the bolt end of the safety handle lurchup slightly while siting the rifle and pulling the trigger when shooting it. This seemed troubling, and yes there is lots of play between the back of the bolt and the receiver when I yank on the safety knob. Is this rifle worn out, or was it made loose due to the emergency situation at the time in wartime Russia during the trying times of 1942? My other Mosin Nagant rifles were made either before WW2 or after, I did not see anything like this on them.

Thanks

1911crazy · « **Reply #1 on:** March 25, 2004, 04:09:53 PM »

I would adjust the firing pin location on the end of the bolt knob. Back it out past flush just a little then screw it in till the scribe lines match up and stop the end of the firing pin should end up flush with the bolt knob. Now try it, it may or may not make a difference. Some of the mosins I recieved the bolts were set wrong. I guess they were in a rush when the did the cosmo. BigBill

These rifles were crudely made but they sure can shoot good. Take it apart and under the reciever in the back there will be a date also when the reciever was made it maybe different if the rifle was rearsenaled and rebarreled.

RB Rooson · « **Reply #2 on:** March 26, 2004, 09:25:23 AM »

I also bought a Mosin Nagant 91/30 recently (vintage 1933) and have no trouble with the bolt being loose or otherwise. This rifle was in excellent shape and I think that it was "re-arsenaliized" (the wood on the stock is in almost perfect condition and the barrel is in pretty good shape - all things being considered).

I have an excellent time shooting it, but can not get the groups that I do with my K-31 Schmitt-Rubin.......I think that it may be just a matter of familiarity and practice.

However, I do need cleaning instructions? I have been swabbing out the barrel with a patch and Ballistol after each time out and have also lubricated the bolt with Ballistol. Do I need do more? I seem to be pulling an awful lot of fouling each time.......may be it's just 60 years of neglect and I'm playing catch-up for years of "Russian military professionalism".

The ammo that I'm using is Albanian 7.62 x 54R; is the powder corrosive or did they use corrosive primers?

Mikey · « **Reply #3 on:** March 26, 2004, 10:13:16 AM »

check the primers on some of your fired Albanian cases. If you look down into the empty case and see two primer flash holes, you are shooting corrosive ammo (corrosive primers that is).

If you are pulling a lot of fouling from your barrel after shooting that stuff, try another brand - some of that ammo may have soft jackets that lead to fouling. If that isn't the case then next week I will cough up a technique for removing copper fouling that was stated in a Beartooth Bullet firelapping manual - supposed to do a pretty good job. I think you can also use Ammonia or windex with ammonia in it as that stuff is supposed to react with the copper and help break it up, although even after your bore is 'clean', your patches will still come out looking dirty. I think there is lots of stuff out there to help clean that bore but check the primers and ammo, first. HTH. Mikey.

1911crazy · « **Reply #4 on:** March 26, 2004, 10:37:04 AM »

No matter what cleaner you use I use G.I. Rifle Bore Cleaner but I run wet patches thru it until the pathers are clean, how many patches depends on how many rounds you shoot and how dirty it is, then I put a dry patch thru it and then oil it up. I don't trust any imported ammo wether it says non corrosive or corrosive I clean everything the same even my modern guns its just a habit I got into. BigBill

His lordship. · « **Reply #5 on:** March 27, 2004, 08:55:12 AM »

Thanks for the reply from all of you. I was looking at the bolt again last night I suspect that it is simply machined loose due to the emergency situation of 1942, lots of gap space between parts contact, too much to simply be worn, lots of machining marks on it, and casting holes too. The rest of the rifle inside the receiver is well machined, smooth, and shaped properly. I wonder if the bolt is a replacement, and not original to the gun as they could have ground off the old serial number, and added a new one.

I clean my guns like Bigbill does, swab with black powder cleaner (water based GI cleaner), wipe dry, then hit it with Hoppes to remove copper, then oil it. I have used the following ammo in it, the most accurate was 180 grained commerical stuff from Bosnia Hertzogovina, Century carries it, then the Czech silver tip, but it caused severe bolt sticking, then the Hungarian steel case (my preferred load), then the brass cased Albanian, so-so accuracy out of that Albie stuff.

I had read that the severe bolt sticking was from varnish build up in the chamber, but my rifle does not have this problem with the Hungarian steel cased ammo, and steel cased ammo causes sticking with my Mauser 98 and even my .22 when using Russian steel cased .22 rimfire. The Czech stuff jambs the bolt even when the gun is cold, most of the time, I won't buy it anymore. Accuracy wise, there is a possibility that this old Mosin might be the most accurate centerfire gun I have ever owned, the Century ammo had a short vertical string at 100 yards where the bullets were almost touching each other, without the use of a scope. I will try that again to make sure it was not plain luck.

I am lucky as this rifle (1942 MN) does not have a problem with copper fowling, practically none seen after 100 rounds fired. I wish my other rifles were that nice!

1911crazy · « **Reply #6 on:** March 27, 2004, 01:55:29 PM »

Chris; The next time before you shoot the mosin with the czech ammo oil up the chamber the wipe it out leaving a very slight film of oil in the case area then shoot it and see if the bolt/case sticks this solved my problem of case sticking the chamber was clean and dry. BigBill

These are awesome shooters and accurate too I will never buy another $700 to $1,000 modern gun for hunting again when one of these surplups will do the job for sure. Even in building my project 8MM mauser was under $200.

RB Rooson · « **Reply #7 on:** March 28, 2004, 02:37:37 PM »

Chris,

I agree with you on the accuracy of the Albanian ammo as being "so-so"......have tried some Czech and there is a great deal of difference! But, then again this is just kind of a "fun gun" and I enjoy seeing what can be done with it, puts my appreciation for the Finnish snipers on a whole different level!!

The gun is in such good shape, that I doubt the I'll part with it for a very long time........have a son visiting this week and he will probably be seeing part of his future inheritance. Am going to have to educate him on just what he is firing and importance of it in world firearms history.

Why wasn't I interested in this kind of stuff when I was 25 yrs. old? Wasted youth, I guess..........

1911crazy · « **Reply #8 on:** March 29, 2004, 01:15:17 AM »

RB Rooson Your right about what we were interested in when we were younger?? I'll refresh your memory it was booze, fast cars and girls?

Hunting, shooting and fishing came last for some of us. If we bought them back then we would of probably sold them too. If you also remember time was a factor too I can remember going to sleep at 3:00am and being at work for 7am too?? Every weekday nite? It was a time when time stood still well for a while? Ah to be young and stupid all over again?? Your right when i bought my first two surplups(98 mauser/M39 mosin) back around the late 70's i didn't catch on either. I shot them once and put them in the safe untill two years ago when i retired(53) i became interested in gun collecting and i was drawn to military surplups mainly because their affordable right now. Plus the ammo was cheaper too years back it was expensive to shoot these old war horses. One thing is to our advantage right now if we get our C&R FFL the list prices back then become our prices right now on some of this stuff. BigBill

I feel really for those who never experience this for if there just doing modern guns their missing out for sure on shooting and enjoying a piece of history. With guns and ammo so cheap for us how can they not buy one? I wanted to collect modern guns first but the high prices drove me to rethink what I wanted to collect. When I first deceided to go with military surplus guns then the problem was who to deal with since my local C&R shop closed up and no modern gun dealer here wants anything to do with C&R guns and the one that does rips us off if he can. So i was driven to get my C&R FFL to bypass all the BS. Now when I open a long brown box just the smell of cosmo gets me cranked up(kidding)!!!!!!!!!!

You talked about the finnish and their mosins, it brings to my mind the story of the "Rifles of the White Death" were 32 finnish soldiers armed with M39's held off 4,000 Russian soldiers and then the Russians retreated with 3,600 left alive with 4 or 5 Finnish soldiers left. I have also read about the M39's making accurate 600meter shots with open sites. These old war horses sure can still shoot too just benchrest one!!!!!