bullet weight for handi in .223

[MtJerry]

Ok- I've read here for many months, and on HR Talk before it left, but I am having a hard time understanding something.

Will my handi (1 in 12 twist) shoot a 55gr. or LARGER bullet without losing stability?

I'm just confused right now  :shock:

I am thinking about using it for deer season this next year.  Never shot one with a .223, but I know it will do the job well if I do my part well.  I am wanting to load the heaviest bullet I can.  I anticipate shots will be under 100 yards.  If longer, I won't shoot.

Appreciate the help.

Jerry

[scruffy]

The heaviest the 1-12" will stabilize well, as a rule, is 55 grains.  Above that and your mileage will vary.  It also depends on what velocity you load into them.  If you take a 60 and back down the velocity you might get it to stabilize and shoot accurately.  But then you trade off FT/LBs.  And more important than that is the velocity the bullet was designed for.  If the bullet was designed to expand at velocities between 2400 - 3600fps when hitting the target and you send it down range at 2200fps the bullet won't perform correctly when it hits it's target.  It may not penetrate the required amount or it may not expand and overpenetrate and pass through like a FMJ.

So there's alot of things to look at besides twist and bullet weight, you also have to include bullet construction, design, and velocity.

Stuff you probably already know.

You might also look into Noslers 55 grain bullet offerings.  I was thinking there was a 55 grain partition, but maybe i'm wrong.

I also know of people using Remington 55 grain PSP's with good luck on small deer and the close ranges you were talking about.

As versital as the .224 bullet selection is I'm sure you can find something your handi likes, just shoot withen the 223's limitations and your limitations and you'll be successful.  Just like bow hunting, know your bow limitations and know your limitations.  If you don't know them both when you're ready to go hunting go to the range instead.  I've heard this with from many bow hunters and it should hold true of all hunters no matter what the game or weapon.

later,
scruffy

[safetysheriff]

I use Hornady 55 and 60 grain spire points driven by 27.1  and 26.7 gr's of either Win-748 or WC-846 (which is a BL(C)-2 burning rate of surplus powder) in Rem' Nickel-plated cases with either Win Small Rifle or Rem'  7 1/2BR primers.     The comment by Scruffy re: 60 gr' velocity being lowered is something that Mathematics disagrees with.    If you take a sixty grain bullet at 3,000 fps in a Handi' that is stable and then drop its velocity down far enough it will keyhole!   What that velocity is I can't tell you.    I have no problems with flat-based 60 gr' bullets in my 1 in 12" twist Handi', however.     Velocity is part of the reason why a .22-250 at 1 in 14" twist will handle Hornady's 60 gr' spire point very well....

Incidentally, those Hornady spire points in the .223 will harvest deer very effectively/humanely if they are properly hit at ranges out to approx' 130 yds' from what I've seen/heard of.    They're used (in the 60 gr' loads)of .22-250 by Hornady for their advertised Deer Load!

Take care.

[MtJerry]

I appreciate the replies.

I guess I need to cough up the cash and get to the range and test some loads

I have a great load worked up for my handi that I have been using for several years on Praire Dogs, 'Yotes and the like.

40gr Hornady VMAX, IMR 4895, CCI SR primer and winchester brass.  It will shoot 3/8" groups at 100.  :lol:  

With that in mind I know my handi will shoot other rounds well enough for deer.  I just need to find the load that works.

Snuffy & SafetySherrif  -  I appreciate the info!

I'll let ya know what works when I figure it out  

[scruffy]

Hmmmm, that's the first I've heard of increasing velocity to help a bullet to stabilize in a slower twist rate barrel.

I thought the 22-250 having a 1-14" twist is why all but one offering from the "big thee" factories, a federal 60 grain partition, are 40-55 grain.  The biggest Win and Rem loads for the 22-250 are 55 grain bullets.  While the 223 rifles come in 1-14" twists to 1-7" twists and have factory loadings from 40 grain to 77 grain.  The heavier bullets, according to the manufacturers, require the faster rate of twist barrels.

You got me scratching my head.  I'm going to have to dust off the physics brain cells and figure this one out.  I feel a head ache coming on.  :?

Nice to see you back around SS!  

later,
scruffy

[handirifle]

I have had rifles stabilize heavier boattail bullets at high velocities that flattail bullets of the same weight would not.  This was in 30 cal.

[jeff223]

i have shot quite a few different bullets in the 223 handi rifle and from what i have found the 55 gr bullets seem to shoot the best.52gr match hollow points shoot good and the Nosler 55gr BT shoot the best of all.im going to compair the Hor 55gr Vmax very soon to the 55BT.

as far as using the 223 for deer?why dont you just use a 22 long rifle instead? :lol:

[Paul5388]

My Handi shot a 2" group with Samson (IMI) 63 gr factory loads.  I didn't realize they were that heavy until after the group had been shot.  That asn't the greatest group, but none of the bullets keyholed.  

I guess shooting and stabilizing the heavier bullets depends on a lot of different factors besides just the twist rate.

[jeff223]

mtjerry,if i were you i would try to come up with something bigger for deer.save your 223 for targets and varmints.the 223 is a great cal and im sure you will love it.you could kill a deer with one but in many states you cant use one.i was being a smart a$$ in the post above,sorry about that. :wink:

[safetysheriff]

Scruffy,

Thanks for the greeting....

Think of the twist rate and the muzzle velocity as setting up a projectile at a number of 'revolutions per second'.     Then remember that muzzle velocity times the quantity of 1 per 12 divided by the twist rate gives you the 'revolutions per second' at the muzzle.     Then remember that the conservation of angular momentum causes the revolutions per second to decrease much slower than the forward velocity of the projectile meeting atmospheric resistance.     The result is a stable bullet to long range if the muzzle velocity and the twist rate are 'proper'.     Greenhill's original formula was possibly for 1500 fps projectiles, or maybe 1800 fps....

Handirifle,

The longer boat tail bullet might have actually achieved a higher muzzle velocity and 'revolutions per second' because of decreased friction in the bore....many of the heavy flat-based bullets having so much bearing surface rubbing against the lands and grooves would be my theory.    The .30'06 and .308 really aren't that fast with heavy bullets....good enough for me, but not really that fast all things considered.

[handirifle]

SS
Good point, and I agree on the velocity of the 30 cal.  mine was '06 so not in the ultra velocity level for sure.  Maybe less contact surface also means less interferience with the bullet too?

Scruffy
The exception to your statement might be Savage rifles, since they use a 1 in 12" twist on their 22-250.

[mattparliament]

25 Grains of IMR 3031 behind Hornady hollow-point.  This load works very well on whitetails and have taken many with it.  Just MAKE SURE YOU DO YOUR PART and take wise shots.  Good luck!

[MtJerry]

:grin:

Again, I appreciate the responses.

Jeff.223 - no offense taken.  I have plenty of guns to take deer with, but just want a bit of a challenge.  I have thought about getting a Handi in .243 and using it, but just wanted to see what kind of resonses this would stimulate.

As far as loading heavier bullets at "lesser" velocities. too much math for me  :shock:

Thanks again to all.

Jerry