Not enough armed citizens

[magooch]

Another public shooting--this time at a mall in Texas and how long will it take for Branden to declare, or insist that guns need to be restricted in one way, or another?  I have to wonder if lives could have been saved if more people had been armed and nailed the shooter even quicker than the cop did. 

I had been thinking about letting my CC permit expire, but with what seems to be going on, I just renewed it instead.  That is not to say that I plan to start carrying any more than I have, but I do like having the option.  I have to admit that I have been surprised at the number of older guys that I see packing (not concealed) at grocery stores these days. 

We used to spend our winters in Arizona and I was somewhat awed by the number of plain clothed cops who were wondering around town,  It turned out that most of them were just citizens who packed a sidearm in plane sight.  People were noticeably more polite.

[Lloyd Smale]

why i think theres more of this stuff every year is the fall of Christianity in this country today. when we were young our parents taught it to us and we feared that if we sinned like that we would burn in hell. today the main things parents seem to teach is how best to scam the system. that is IF they even take 5 minutes a month to do that. a bunch of kids and even adults that grew up with no love or attention or guidance and crave attention so badly they kill to get itim not saying anything new to anyone here but we have to get this country back to "IN GOD WE TRUST" and instead we see a landslide to hell. Do i think this can be reversed? NOPE  Sadly i think our kids will witness the death of the United States. My father told shortly before he died that he was lucky. his was the last generation to know this country in its prime. that every time he looked at his grandchildren and great grandchildren he feared for what kind of life they would have to endure. He said he felt guilty for the good life he had and that he was helpless to protect them. just like i will say to mine that we were the last generation  that honored the 2nd amendment or really any of the constitution. I will continue the fight but honestly i think its just a matter of time before government Gestapo come pounding on our doors. this is what will fill the void left by death of Christianity

[ironglow]

   I don't think Christianity is dying, so much as it can be compared to clear Maple sap being made into syrup.
   
   Through a process of applying heat, and boiling down, some part evaporates, while the rest becomes finer, purer, concentrate.

    It takes 40 gallons of sap, to go through the heat, and boil down to 1 gallon of  "amber grade A" syrup.

[darkgael]

today the main things parents seem to teach is how best to scam the system.

That is quite a generality.

[ironglow]

Another public shooting--this time at a mall in Texas and how long will it take for Branden to declare, or insist that guns need to be restricted in one way, or another?  I have to wonder if lives could have been saved if more people had been armed and nailed the shooter even quicker than the cop did. 

I had been thinking about letting my CC permit expire, but with what seems to be going on, I just renewed it instead.  That is not to say that I plan to start carrying any more than I have, but I do like having the option.  I have to admit that I have been surprised at the number of older guys that I see packing (not concealed) at grocery stores these days. 

We used to spend our winters in Arizona and I was somewhat awed by the number of plain clothed cops who were wondering around town,  It turned out that most of them were just citizens who packed a sidearm in plane sight.  People were noticeably more polite.

   Brings to mind the "Hungerford massacre".  Hungerford is a town in England, which is of a size where most people know each other.
   One day, a young man went berserk, and just started shooting people.  Most were shot at point blank, or short range.

    Local police gun permitted squad (only a few are permitted) was training 45 miles away, so they were not on hand.
    There were 16 killed, 15 wounded; he even shot his mother, when she tried to talk him out of his killing spree.

     https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/hungerford_massacre

   One can't help but think that, just one good  guy with a .22 rifle could have stopped him...

[ironglow]

today the main things parents seem to teach is how best to scam the system.

That is quite a generality.

   You will note, I did some editing with the OP.  I hope it clarified the original..  Look historically at Christian oppression; many of the
 less devoted or "sunshine soldiers" (Paine's "Common Sense") of Christianity scatter and fall away, while the "patriot" types hang tough.

     Consider the reactions to the inquisition, by the many Christians not aligned with the politically dominant church.  Yes, some
     vaporized and disappeared, but others made their new residence in the Alps of Switzerland, Austria and the Tyrol, and from there,
      spread the word, perhaps culminating in a statement nailed to the Schlosskirche church door in Wittenberg.

   Now, let's return to the armed citizen subject, before somebody cries "foul"..

[Lloyd Smale]

lets look at the thousands crossing the border every day  showing there children how to get a free ride, the huge amount of people that are career welfare trash in this country today. both cases with there kids getting educated in scamming. look at all the young black people looking for reparation pay because there lazy father (IF he did stick around) that never had a job and convinced his children he cant get work because hes black and his ancestors were slaves so he shouldnt have to!!!!  want more?? even our president and his son have it down to an art!!!!!!!!!

today the main things parents seem to teach is how best to scam the system.

That is quite a generality.

[Dee]

Well, we need more armed citizens, but so far all we got is history lessons on Christianity, slavery, welfare, and a shooting in Europe, 40 years ago.   

[ironglow]

  Well, I guess each could have replied to the OP from Magooch, by simply saying "yes".  But frankly, I am interested in the thoughts
     of others.
  I suppose we could have a "check the box" system, where the original postrer could make a statement, and those who folloow cpould
    simply check a box, either...YES..NO..or...NO COMMENT!

[ironglow]

today the main things parents seem to teach is how best to scam the system.

That is quite a generality.

  I don't really expect Lloyd was referring to ALL parents..at least I don't think so...

[Dee]

Another public shooting--this time at a mall in Texas and how long will it take for Branden to declare, or insist that guns need to be restricted in one way, or another?  I have to wonder if lives could have been saved if more people had been armed and nailed the shooter even quicker than the cop did. 

I had been thinking about letting my CC permit expire, but with what seems to be going on, I just renewed it instead.  That is not to say that I plan to start carrying any more than I have, but I do like having the option.  I have to admit that I have been surprised at the number of older guys that I see packing (not concealed) at grocery stores these days. 

We used to spend our winters in Arizona and I was somewhat awed by the number of plain clothed cops who were wondering around town,  It turned out that most of them were just citizens who packed a sidearm in plane sight.  People were noticeably more polite.

Some are having trouble relating I suppose.

Here is sumthin actually comparable magooch.
Remember the El Paso Walmart massacre? 23 killed?
All those people (hundreds) at Walmart. Think there were any "concealed carriers" there? Likely dozens! How many drew those concealed weapons and neutralized the threat?

ANSWER? NOT ONE!

The Bible says that EVERYBODY TALKIN BOUT HEAVEN,  AIN'T NECESSARILY GOIN THERE.

Well, its the same with gun toting coffee shop, and internet heros. Most Americans have never, and will never, pull a trigger on a booger, just like less than I in 10 military personnel have ever, or will ever, actually see combat
, but they sure like to talk about being veterans.
Cops used to do 30 years, and never pulled a trigger. They'd call someone else to do it if given the chance.

Its really easy, and really popular, to boast about what he, or she, woulda done. Its another thing entirely, to actually do it.

So Allen Texas, less than 30 miles from where I grew up,  in a state (Texas) where "Constitutional Carry" is everywhere, had better thank their lucky stars that A SINGLE SOLITARY COP that took the oath, and actually meant it, was in the right place, at the right time.

MORE GUNS ISN'T NECESSARILY THE ANSWER. MORE WILLING "MEN", ARE THE ANSWER.

[ironglow]

  This cool-under-fire fellow is from Indiana, and saved lives in Indiana....
https://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2022/07/18/elisjsha-dicken-identified-as-man-who-killed-greenwood-park-mall-suspsect/65375869007/
   

[Lloyd Smale]

THIS

MORE GUNS ISN'T NECESSARILY THE ANSWER. MORE WILLING "MEN", ARE THE ANSWER.

[neckisred]

Its really easy, and really popular, to boast about what he, or she, woulda done. Its another thing entirely, to actually do it.

FACT!!!!!!!!!! My first concern in a situation like this would be my families safety. I'd certainly like to think I'd do anything possible to take out the shooter, but having never been in such a situation, or properly trained, I can't say what I would do.............................

[Dee]

Its really easy, and really popular, to boast about what he, or she, woulda done. Its another thing entirely, to actually do it.

FACT!!!!!!!!!! My first concern in a situation like this would be my families safety. I'd certainly like to think I'd do anything possible to take out the shooter, but having never been in such a situation, or properly trained, I can't say what I would do.............................

And your feelings on such an event are perfectly normal. There is no way you could know, until your put into that scenario. I've seen veteran police officers that had managed to avoid that type of situation for years, and when they were pushed into such a scenario they froze. My son saw this in 3 combat tours, as did a much decorated WWII combat veteran uncle of mine. He said many froze and didn't  fight.

[magooch]

If there were an easy answer to these senseless shootings and killings, it probably would already have been accomplished, but in a way, the reporting of them is a type of training.  At the very least it makes people aware of what goes on and might cause some to think seriously about what they might do if they were confronted.  I admit that for me, the all too often reportage of outrageous events has had maybe the wrong thoughts.  Most of the time I have determined that it is best to trust in your thoughtful instincts and avoid bad situations and don't deal with nut cases if there is a way out of it.  In my younger days, I kind of had a hair trigger and way too much bravado.  Body building and youth seems to stimulate this type of confidence.  I was very lucky to survive all of that without negative consequences. 

At this point, I do not plan to go around armed, or even to go places where it might be wise to carry.  I no longer have a family to protect, but I do have the means to protect my home while I'm in it. 

[Dee]

Having seen UNPROVOKED AGGRAVATED ASSAULTS, and beating deaths I will avoid bad areas, and bad situations if possible. HOWEVER, I will always be armed due to actually seeing the ramifications of the aforementioned witnessed events.
I am determined to never be a victim, nor any member of my family if I can prevent it.

[Ranger99]

The official line when I was
young was "don't fight with
the bullies, and they'll leave
you alone "
Then "just give them your
wallet and they'll go away "

Sorry. That was BS then and
it's BS now. People today kill
because it thrills them. We've
just got too weak to do what
needs doing. That, and the
gubmint punishes self defense
as if was a crime instead of
the God given right that it is

[gypsyman]

Big problem is most of people that defended themselves, weather by actually using a firearm, or just displaying one, never makes the news. You'll never hear that on most news channels, doesn't fit their agenda. One of the pages I always read is when my American Rifleman shows up is the one with stories of people using a firearm in self defense. Usually 10-12 incidents where a person used a gun. You'll never see many of them on MSM.

[Dee]

I used my sidearm in 1977, and again in 1978. For the next 19 years, I never used it again. Then I retired.
Now,  I hope i don't ever have to use my sidearm again. But, if I ever do, I'm okay with nobody herein about it.

[orerancher]

Nowadays seems. If you stop a bad guy...you are the one who is gonna be. In trouble with the law...

[Dee]

Seems that way in a lot of places.