MT regulars...has anyone heard from Crow-waxer?

[ironglow]

Crow waxer should be very busy just about now at Parris Island.
  My grandson is there, and just finished his rifle qualifications.
      Old Gramps is proud; he qualified EXPERT!!!
   Now, his old Gramp teases him that he did it at 500 yds max (Marines),  while  many years ago, Gramps qualified expert at 550 meters!
   Of course, I haven't yet mentioned that I had the advantage of using the M-14..that .308, 150 gr bullet was better for long range work!..LOL
   Sadly now, the Army only goes to 300 yds.
  His NCOs did note that he was especially adept at pounding his targets at 200 & 300 yards in rapid fire mode!
   Allow Gramps to brag a bit.....Josh finished tops in his weight class with pugil sticks and did very well at martial arts (I'm glad I gave up many tues & thurs nights to drive hin 40 miles each way for kick boxing training).
   He is thoroughly ENJOYING Marine boot training...is that a common attitude?

   I do hope that Crow-waxer is enjoying his boot training also. He should do well at the range also.
   
   I recall as a young soldier the NCOs told us they didn't care if we had never fired a rifle before...they would teach us how to shoot.
    Curiously, There were just two of us that made expert in a company of appx 250 men.
    In checking later, I found that both experts and the top 8-10 sharpshooters were all country and had used guns all their life.
   Experience does pay...just as it did with my grandson...

[MSP Ret]

Ironglow, you have a great reason to be proud of your "grand" grandson and that he soon will be, "one of the few, one of the proud". I am so happy for you I am going to do my best to see that with one more post you get another "bullet" by your name, even though it's plain to see that both you and your "grand" grandson only need one!!!.......carry on!!!....<><.... :grin:

[big medicine]

Thats funny, I was thinking of Crow Waxer just the other day while I was out shooting. Was wondering how the kid was doing. If I remember it was 23 Feb when he left for boot camp. Hope he doesnt forget all his cyber friends.

[Major]

Hope he doesnt forget all his cyber friends.

I don’t think he will… he’s a good kid!    :lol:    

[ironglow]

The trainees can't have "junk food" of course; but he keeps asking  for us to send "Power bars", so we send a box of them regularly. I guess the DIs then dole them out as a reward for exemplary  achievement or behavior....those sly rascals!...LOL
  Although I was Army, it was a long time ago (I even wore brown boots during my first hitch), so it was the old "non politically correct" Army.
   I tried to clue him in as to how things would present themselves.
  For instance; I told him that at just about the 3rd or 4th week into boot training he will be telling himself: "What did I do? Am I nuts? Now I have 4 years of this to face!!
 I told him that when he reaches that "pit" he's at the bottom...just hang on...it will get better, week by week as the training comes through and he gets used to the "job". From that bottom spot...it only keeps getting easier and better..
   He now writes back and tells his Dad..."It's just like Gramp said it would be!".

    One word of advice I gave him (as an old DI) was...  When things get tough remember; your DI doesn't  hate you...he's just preparing you for the time when you will face the guys that REALLY do hate you!

   So far he has expressed appreciation for what I have passed on to him!

[big medicine]

ironglow,
Sounds like sound advice. Some days it seems like only yesterday.

[NYH1]

ironglow, I'm just curious why did your grandson choose the Marines over the Army? I'm not saying its a bad thing, not a all. I'm just wondering thats all. :-D

[MSP Ret]

NYH, With all due respect, if you have to ask you'll probably never know....<><.... :?  and Ironglow, congratulations again to both you and your grandson, you both are to be commended and both deserve to be very proud...it's tough to be the best, but someone's got to do it....<><.... :grin:

[NYH1]

NYH, With all due respect, if you have to ask you'll probably never know....<><.... :?

MSP Ret, what do you mean by that? I just asked a simple question. I hope your not saying that the Army is some how a "lesser institution" then the Marine Corps.  :wink:

[MSP Ret]

NYH,  I don't know why you would say that.  I never said that anything or anybody was a "lesser institution".  Now that you ask the question I will answer, it's not lesser, just different. If you don't know how they are different and can't see the difference an explanation would not help. The one thing all branches of the Armed Services do is keep us free and keep us safe, with their lives if necessary. I applaud them all.  Each of them however has their own persona, and each is different, and for good reason.  I stand by my statements regarding ironglow and his grandson, as well as crowwaxer, having reason to be proud.  They each should be VERY proud to be, "one of the few, one of the proud". And if you have to ask why one would choose the Marines over any other branch of the service you would not understand the answer, for it is obvious.  Perhaps you are correct however and the reason is obvious only to those who chose it. That said, each and every one of us that served in any branch of the military of this fine country of ours has reason to be proud. All the liberals and democrats in the country be damned, this country will continue on IN SPITE OF THEM, and what they are trying to do to us all!!!. I support this President, the Military AND what they are doing, and am proud to do so and to admit, nay, to proclaim it!!!. I did not support the last president and his liberal, left wing, democratic, socialist, weak, anti-American, anti-Military positions and policies!!!....<><.... :grin:

[NYH1]

MSP Ret, or anyone else for that matter please answer my question in detail. I just asked a question. Thank's :-D

[NYH1]

I know the Army trains Marines to do a lot of things. They work closer together then most people think. MP's, EOD's are trained by the Army. "Force Recon" gets its mandatory Airborne training from the Army's jump school at Fort Brag. Some Marines go to Army Ranger school. The Army has its own snipper school, but some of the Army soldiers do go the Marine Corps Snipper school. Which is supposed to be the best. I work with a guy who retired (20 yr. in 1999) as a Gunnery sergeant in the Marine Corps. He was in EOD (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) his last ten years in. He was also on a "hostage rescue team", where his job was to "breach" doors or window's and anything else that needed to be blown up.  He said he got most of his training from the Army and Air Force. He was trained for the "hostage rescue" thing at an Air Force Base in florida. The training was for all the branches of the service Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines.

The Marine's travel lighter, smaller and strike hard and quick. Their probably the best at this. The Army has some pretty capable unit for this too. The Ranger's, the 82nd Airborne division always has a "brigade" on stand by to deploy anywhere in the world in 18 hours. I have a good friend that is in the 173rd Airborne Brigade stationed in Vicenza, Italy. He was one of a thousand troops that "jumped" into northern Iraq. Their our rapid deployment force in Europe.

But for the most part the Army travel's larger, heavier and slower then the Marines, but are usually in combat for a longer period of time. As you can see I probably would understand if you explained it to me.

[marlinman93]

There's not a single branch of the Armed Forces that doesn't do some cross training with the other branches. Still each is unique, and the reasons people chose one or the other are also unique.
 It seems to depend on what you are looking to get out of that branch for yourself. I can't tell you why anyone would pick any particular branch of the Armed Forces over another. I know why I made my choice, but even the guys I was in with had other reasons for picking the same branch.

[ironglow]

NYH;
 MSP ret is just being polite, and rightly so...since he was a Marine.
    I was in the Army many years ago 50s and 60s...
At that time, basically the Army was men....sure there were WACs (Women's Army Corps)....but we didn't train with them, nor billet (live) with them. They had their jobs, primarily clerical, medical or other rear-eschelon jobs.
 
  Now ; before I go on, I want to state that the Army has some premier troops, primarily in the combat arms. I can only offer great respect for the Rangers, Special forces etc.

   The critical juncture occured a few years ago, when the various services had to (by pressure from politicians) choose whether they were going to go completely "politically correct" or not.

  As far as I can see, the Marines are the only branch to eschew that "phony baloney" posture.

   When I was in the "brown boot" Army ( boots changed from brown to black about 1958), we were treated brutally by today's standards...
   We often were stood at attention in the hot sun until some of the   soldiers fell flat on their face. I have been in "full gear" forced marches and we were led, yes LED by NCOs that kept driving us until there were only about 4 or 5 of us still marching(dragging)
  I have seen troopers that were out of step continually, have the platoon Sgt. grab their M1 rifle near the handguard, pull it out about 10" to a foot and SLAM the rifle up along side the troops head, knocking him down and his steel pot rolling down the road!
  Now, that last act, I NEVER would have done to a 'cruit when I was a DI...but that particular Platoon Sgt. had recently served in the Korean war and carried a bit of "imbalance".
 
  There is a Mystique among soldiers and Marines that a civilian would have problems relating to.....
   When you have been through such challenges, and you and just a few others are still standing...you may be beat, sick, dog-tired and ache all-over....but when the band starts playing and the flags flapping; your back straightens, your step gets snappy  and you're so darn proud to be "one of the few"!

  I have a nephew in the Army, a Sgt. in Engineers...just got back about a week ago from Iraq.
   He is just biding his last year or two to retirement...

  It seems that in today's PC Army, if an individual soldier is having a "hard day" and he/she doesn't want the Sgts. "chewing out", he/she has a "time-out" card that he/she can flash, and the platoon Sgt. has to "back off".
  He had a female soldier back at Ft. Lewis Wa. a few years ago that was an "eight-ball" and trouble maker. One day he sat her down and talked somewhat sternly to her. When he finished, he figured they understood each other...
   
   She went to the battalion commander and shed some tears...
   My nephew was called in, and was threatened with an article #15...because he made a "soldier" cry!

  Seems to me, a "soldier" that is easily inclined to cry, is in the wrong line of work!
   
   Again; the Army has some absolutely top notch units/soldiers....but basic training is geared to the lowest denominator.
  Since they train men and women together...from what I understand, the forced marches, rifle ranges etc, etc. are all less demanding than with the Marines.
  My grandson placed top in his weight class, fighting with pugil sticks! If women and men were training together...how could troops be expected to go "full out" with pugil sticks?
   If you drove a platoon until about 3/4 of the people fell (and I mean FELL) you would usually have only men left...not good for PC.

    Yes, the Marines, being fewer in number, don't have certain schools of their own...tanks, for instance. They train in tanks, with the Army...I presume at Ft. Knox, where I trained in tanks many years ago..

    To wrap it up; my grandson wanted to be one of "the few; the proud!".
 
  Knowing the importance of TEAM in the military, the "Army of one" slogan immediately turned him off; It seemed to indicate selfishness...
 
   I have to admit that with today's PC Army; I would probably do the same.

   OK; you soldiers that are serving in today's Army...I may be "out of the loop"...correct me where I am wrong.

[magooch]

Crow-waxer's mother posted on Rimfire Central saying he is okay, but I couldn't read the whole thing, because Rimfire is having some kind of technical difficulty.

[NYH1]

Ask a question and get an answer, thank's ironglow!

[BamBams]

Every branch of the service is unique in it's own right.  No one branch rides far and above the rest of them.  Everyone works together to get the job done. All the services have their mess hall cooks as well as their trained killers. Does this help?

[ironglow]

Agreed Bam Bams...

   Each branch has the great and not so great...
 
   What I was basically referring to is the general culture of the branch...usually reflections of the "topmost" leadership...

   Who knows; with leadership changes perhaps things can get much better. Although "like promotes like" so a culture is usually slow to change

    Some military leaders are "cowed" by things like the"Tailhook scandal"!

[big medicine]

magooch,
I was over on RFC looking for Crow waxer's mothers post and could not find it. Where about is it?

[Mauser]

Crow Waxer is probably just finished with first phase and is on his way to the rifle range.  Privates with prior shooting and hunting experience have something of an advantage but the training is so excellent and complete that it is not surprising when someone who has never held a rifle before is platoon or company high shot (as it was in my platoon).

There is no question that the Marine Corps has resisted political correctness much more than the other branches.  For a truly scary account of how the Army has gone soft, read: "The Kinder, Gentler Military," by Stephanie Gutman.  Most Army physical training standards are now geared to the female of our species.  My guess is that the Chinese don't train this way.  Gutman concedes that Army needs to do it "like the Marines" who are, for the most part, still tough.  

Even though I'm a former Marine, I take no pleasure about this state of affairs in the Army.  Each branch has a mission, and the Army is absolututely crucial to nation's ability to fight and win wars.

[magooch]

magooch,
I was over on RFC looking for Crow waxer's mothers post and could not find it. Where about is it?

I was just over there and I forgot to look for it.  When I get done here, maybe I'll go back and take a look.

[crow_feather]

In the Corps, there are no cooks, mechanics, clerks, as every man is first a rifleman.

I was a marine and proud of it.  When I served, 99% of the Marine Corps enlisted were there because they wanted to be.  They could be counted on to cover your back.  Marines joined back then because they wanted to be part of the best.  They were.

Mind you, I am not saying that any other service was less than great.  But there is a feeling that resides in the soul of a Marine knowing that when his time comes, he still has a job left - guarding the streets of heaven.

C F

[magooch]

magooch,
I was over on RFC looking for Crow waxer's mothers post and could not find it. Where about is it?

I did go back and take a look on RFC, but I couldn't find the post from Waxer's mother.

[big medicine]

Thanks for checking.