Author Topic: Suitable Bullets for Silhouette in 6.5mm  (Read 1462 times)

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Offline Troy G

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Suitable Bullets for Silhouette in 6.5mm
« on: March 29, 2004, 05:47:19 AM »
What are most people using for bullets in the 6.5mm for Silhouette?  I assume the most popular are the Sierra Matchking, Lapua Scenar, and Bob Cauterucio VLD.  

The reason I ask is that a bullet maker in Alberta, Canada Is gearing up to make 6.5mm bullets.  I have expressed interest in a bullet that is as hard or harder than the above listed bullets and at least as accurate and hopefully not as expensive.  What weights woud be the best as he was planning to make a 142gr rebated boat tail.  He said he could go heavier or lighter.  Naturally something in a 107-110 gr bullet would be nice as well.  He also talked about closing the meplats as well.

What say ye gentlemen?  Is there any interest in such bullets?  What design specs would you guys and gals like to see?  Please post responses here or email me personally and I will relay the input to him.

Offline ajj

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Suitable Bullets for Silhouette in 6.5mm
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2004, 08:25:28 AM »
Troy, you seem to have a good grasp of what people are shooting, at least the 6.5 shooters I know. I'll speculate that the harder core is of most importance at the ram and that most of the dual-load shooters use the light bullets out to turkeys (shooting three light bullets for each heavy one.) Hand-making custom bullets for less than Sierra or Lapua can do it is going to be pretty tough.

Offline drags

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Suitable Bullets for Silhouette in 6.5mm
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2004, 11:02:40 AM »
Hi Troy
This is from the equipment survey list at the Highpower nationals at Ridgway last year. The shooters used the the bullet manufacturs listed below.
Sierra        113
Hornady     10
Lapua         5
Nosler         2
This is for highpower rifle and the hunter survey was simlar. Also the winner in highpower rifle used sierra bullets.
Drags

Offline Fivepigs

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hard and heavy
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2004, 04:31:47 PM »
I'd say as heavy as possible, but it should stabilize in an 8 twist bbl (my guess is that's what most folks are using -- I think you pretty much need an 8 twist to shoot the 142's).  And a hard core and hard jacket.  I'd be willing to spend a little extra on a good ram bullet.  I don't use very many of them.  I hope they decide to go for it.  Keep us posted!

Offline shootingpaul

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Re: hard and heavy
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2004, 06:21:54 PM »
Quote from: Fivepigs
I'd say as heavy as possible, but it should stabilize in an 8 twist bbl (my guess is that's what most folks are using -- I think you pretty much need an 8 twist to shoot the 142's).  And a hard core and hard jacket.  I'd be willing to spend a little extra on a good ram bullet.  I don't use very many of them.  I hope they decide to go for it.  Keep us posted!

why dont you buy Lapuas 139? way better then 142s, I tried them both...
maybe you should buy a 100 and try them at diferent shooting ranges to convince yourself that it is what you need...
I myself do not think that someone can make a better bullet cheaper, and if you want more expensive one there is the Cauterucio, which I never tried (never needed too).
the bottom line is that Lapua is harder than Sierra and Lapua has higher BC, and if you want something harder there is a 144 gr FMJ - from Lapua.
I used to shoot sierras but since I tried Lapua I never looked back.
when all read and done it is only my opinion
Have a good one and i hope that you will find your match
shootingpaul

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Offline Troy G

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Never say Never
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2004, 02:45:02 AM »
I have no financial stakes in this 6.5mm bullet venture.  I merely wanted to know if there was interest in another bullet suitable for silhouette.  Sounds like he is going to make a 142 gr to start and see how things go before he starts making other bullet weights.

I personally thought there would be more interest in a different bullet.  Pawel I guess we will see if a better bullet can be made for less money.  I like when people make attempts to make a better product.  Either way we the shooters win.  If it is better good, I will shoot it, if not I can always go back to the Lapua.

Offline iceman99

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bullet hardness
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2004, 04:23:05 AM »
From reading these posts it is unclear what the benifits of a "harder" bullet will be. My 6.5X55 loads have never failed to take what they hit.

Is this only an issue for 7BR situations? I know a 7BR shooter that puts his bullets in the oven, cools them quickly and gets pretty good results.

Just looking to discuss - not upset anyone... :shock:

Offline drags

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Suitable Bullets for Silhouette in 6.5mm
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2004, 04:40:00 AM »
Derek Greenaway at the Highpower nationals last year got 38 of 40 rams and I believe (Please correct me if i'm wrong) he used the 6.5 142 gr smk. Tony Boyer (the benchrest campion) said when chosing equipment find out what the winners are using and use that. I've haven't used the Lapua bullet, but they have a reputation of being a good bullet I use the 6.5 142 gr smk for the rams in a 9 twist barrel and so far they have been great. For me I get better results with practice and developing technques that help me hit more rams. If I can hit more bullet choice will be secondary.
Drags

Offline Mongo1

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6.5 bullets
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2004, 04:50:37 AM »
Troy,

Your friend should buy some 130 grain Norma VLDs and examine them closely.  They have an extraordinarily small meplat and the jacket thickness is much greater than the MatchKings and such, although the jacket material is probably very conventional in terms of its composition and hardness.  Their core is most likely a pretty conventional lead, not a hardened alloy.  They leave a very small/tight bullet mark on the ram even when driven at very high velocity which I have interpreted as the bullet "staying together" better upon impact.

Cauterucio bullets also use a thicker than typical jacket to good advantage.  If you examine the Norma bullet very closely you will see that it is not a "true" VLD design in that the very last portion of the ogive has been changed around to a somewhat more rounded design which has been demonstrated to result in better grouping between 600 and 1K yards than the original VLD design used.  It made no appreciable change in the B.C.

The 130 grain bullets are on the light side for rams as they need to be driven quite hard to get the velocity necessary to obtain the momentum equal to some other bullets, but they are very definitely "hitting harder" than most other bullets.  Achieveable velocities start dropping rather quickly when the bullet weight gets beyond 141/142 grains, especially in magazine rifles.  There are some 147 grain bullets which are reported to shoot well, but are not able to obtain sufficient velocity to warrant their use in a magazine length loaded 6.5-08.

There are some 136 grain VLDs made by E-Zee-Tens which have shown some promise in the 1K yard events.  I have not yet done testing with them, but it is probably a weight that would be easy to achieve, even with a thicker jacket and harder (less dense) core while keeping the length of the bullet within the current dimensions known to work well with eight twist barrels.  Your friend will probably want to do some experiments changing the cores to adjust weight in the same jacket to hunt for the "sweet spot" of velocity and retained energy for magazine length loads.

As you know, the VLD designs require chambers with special throating to shoot well when loaded to Rem 700 short action magazine lengths, whereas the Lapua 139 grain Scenars shoot very well out of a great many different chambers/throats, which is something to consider when choosing a bullet design.  The 108 grain Scenars seem to be much easier to get to shoot consistently than the 107 grain Sierras.  The 123 grain Scenar is a pretty decent bullet as well.

I am not terribly certain that changing the alloy of the jacket to a harder alloy is all that good an idea as there are a great many unanswered questions which arise when doing so, quite apart from the problem of obtaining the raw materials which might well be difficult, if not impossible, at a practical price in the small quantities involved.  Everything from ease of manufacture (and wear on the forming dies) to gas sealing in the barrel and, of course, barrel wear.  I think that simply using a thicker jacket, harder core and small meplat would accomplish the desired objectives and avoid confronting these unknowns, but that is just an opionion.

As far as the 142 grain MK goes, it shoots well enough, but does not do well on the ram if the muzzle velocity is much above 2750 fps.  The 139 grain Scenar can be driven appreciably faster before encountering bullet failure on the ram.  The Cauterucio bullets seem to tolerate whatever velocity you can achieve, as will the 130 grain Norma.

Offline Fivepigs

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Suitable Bullets for Silhouette in 6.5mm
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2004, 09:55:29 AM »
Paul, I have been using the Lapua 139's for the last 2 or 3 years.  You're right -- they are slightly better than the Sierra 142's when it comes to ram knockdown.  Ballistically I think they are just about identical (I use the same charge and same sight settings for both bullets).  But I have rung fewer rams over the years with Lapua than Sierra.  Nevertheless, I still ring quite a few rams on certain ranges with the Lapuas.  I am sending them downrange at just over 2700 fps.

Offline Troy G

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Good post Mongo
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2004, 10:53:38 AM »
Thanks Mongo I have forwarded your post to the bullet maker.   I would not classify this bulllet maker and myself as friends.  I am just excited that someone in Canada is trying to make their way into a market dominated by a couple of bullet makers as far as I see it.  I suggested he try and make a bullet that may compete with some of the bullets that are commonly used for silhouette as there are many excellent bullets in 6.5 that are good for punching paper (JLK, Berger, and Clinch River Outfitters.)